I think anyone who visits this site will know from the outset that I believe in an actual, physical Rapture event to occur at some point during these end times. This is precisely why I chose the name "Look Up Fellowship" for this ministry.
I'll admit that I've always kept an open mind, however, about the timing (i.e. Pre-Tribulation; Mid-Tribulation; Post-Tribulation; 2 Raptures interpretations), and have also listened to what some sincere Christians have had to say about us having to experience some of the horrors that are in store for this planet and humanity during Daniel's 70th Week. I guess you could say that I'm still listening - - to some extent.
Why? Because that just fits with the general approach of this ministry, which is to be willing to consider alternate views from other Brothers and Sisters in Christ so that I can prayerfully consider whether or not any of them have any merit. The hope is that one person might have a small piece of the puzzle while someone else has another small piece. Together those pieces make a complete whole and help us to better understand God's plan.
Ultimately, I hope it goes without saying that EVERYTHING must agree with God's Word as found in His Holy Bible or it isn't to be taken as truth.
That being said, my intent with this entry is not to start an intense and on-going debate about the existence or the timing of the Rapture. Instead, I simply want to share something significant that Petros (a community member) alerted me to recently.
The author of an article he referenced makes the case that the Rapture is spoken of quite unmistakably in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Furthermore, the writer provides what I think is crystal clear evidence that the meaning of the Greek noun apostasia has been misinterpreted from its original or more common definition.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 - - "Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction."
Rather than include the entire article here for you to read (it's not long though) I'll give you a little taste of some of the incredible conclusions that are presented. Here are some amazing snippets from this eye-opening piece:
"I believe that there is a strong possibility that 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is speaking of the rapture. What do I mean? Some pretribulationists,like myself, think that the Greek noun apostasia, usually translated 'apostasy,' is a reference to the rapture and should be translated 'departure.' Thus, this passage would be saying that the day of the Lord will not come until the rapture comes before it. If apostasia is a reference to a physical departure, then 2 Thessalonians 2:3 is strong evidence for pretribulationism."
"The Greek noun apostasia is only used twice in the New Testament...The verb is used fifteen times in the New Testament. Of these fifteen, only three have anything to do with a departure from the faith."
"Again, how would the Thessalonians, or Christians in any century since, be qualified to recognize the apostasy when it should come, assuming, simply for the sake of this inquiry, that the Church might be on earth when it does come? There has been apostasy from God, rebellion against Him, since time began."
"I wonder if you have noticed the striking parallel between this verse and verses 7-8, a little further down. According to your suggestion verse 3 mentions the departure of the church as coming first, and then tells of the revealing of the man of sin. In verses 7 and 8 we find the identical sequence. Verse 7 tells of the removal of the Church; verse 8 says: 'And then shall that Wicked be revealed.' Thus close examination of the passage shows an inner unity and coherence, if we take the word apostasia in its general sense of 'departure,' while a superficial examination would easily lead to an erroneous interpretation as 'falling away' because of the proximity of the mention of the man of sin."
"The fact that apostasia most likely has the meaning of physical departure is a clear support for pretribulationism. If this is true, (Dr. Tim LaHaye and I believe that it is), then it means that a clear prophetic sequence is laid out by Paul early in his Apostolic ministry. Paul teaches in 2 Thessalonians 2 that the rapture will occur first, before the Day of the Lord commences. It is not until after the beginning of the Day of the Lord that the Antichrist is released, resulting in the events described by him in chapter 2 of 2 Thessalonians. This is the only interpretation that provides hope for a discomforted people. Maranatha!"
Personally, I found this to be the best analysis of this whole debate that I've read in quite some time. I know that there will be some who will light up the Comments Section and fiercely disagree with me, and that's ok. Like I said, I'm still keeping an open mind - - to an extent - - regarding all possibilities and scenarios (I think it's the right way to approach this topic until I can understand every related passage in the Bible for myself), but this is a pretty stunning case. In fact, I might even go so far as to state that it's a tough one to refute.
In one verse - - through the study of the true meaning of one word - - we seem to have proof that not only indicates that the Rapture is a real, future event, but we also have information that indicates when it will occur along the prophetic timeline for these last days.
Now, consider what we just looked at here last week about Daniel's Timeline and the case for the Great Tribulation beginning in either July 2009 or some time in 2010. Friends, that would mean that the Rapture (holding to a Pre-Trib position as was just demonstrated above) is closer than ever before! We could be talking months or even weeks, but no more than another year or so!
Could it be!?! Is God beginning to quicken the pace of this "unsealing" in these last days so that we will become emboldened in our faith, and share this news with anyone and everyone who will listen? I'm starting to believe that this is EXACTLY what's taking place here.
Please stay tuned the rest of the week because I'm putting the finishing touches on a new series of articles that takes this new revelation regarding the Rapture, mixes it with our findings from the Daniel's Timeline series, and adds an exclamation point you won't believe or want to miss!!!
Until then, keep looking up! Maranatha!!!
***UPDATE 3/3/09 : There are a few excellent comments already submitted in response to this entry. You can read them for yourself, but all make some great points and this is PRECISELY why I've found myself moving from one camp to another when it comes to the timing of the Rapture. No, I don't think it has already happened. Yes, I think it will definitely occur. Will it happen before the start of Daniel's 70th Week? Will it happen Mid-Tribulation at the 3.5 year mark? Will it occur at the end of the Tribulation at the 7 year mark? Will there be 2 distinct Rapture "escape" events? We'll soon find out, but please keep sharing your thoughts on this because there's still I lot to learn. In fact, one community member pointed out that the Daniel's Timeline main website has an entire section devoted to the Rapture that I didn't know about - - thank you. In any event, please check back often this week because I'm going to present some things that could bolster a case for the timing of this event.***
RECOMMENDED READING:
The Rapture In 2 Thessalonians 2:3
"They All Slumbered And Slept"
The Rapture
The Rapture Mentioned In Corinthians
Rethinking The Rapture Series (Parts 1-3)
Rethinking The Rapture (UPDATE)
I'm Still Watching For The Rapture
From Generation To Generation
26 Comments:
Have you read this?
http://www.danielstimeline.com/rapture.htm
He points to a lot of scripture that strongly indicates a POST-trib rapture.
This is the same site where you got your daniel's timeline info too wasnt it?
http://www.danielstimeline.com/danielstimeline.html
I do agree that the rapture will occur, because the rapture is the first resurrection. However, to use apostasia to mean anything other than a falling away is not good exegesis. Although apostasia can mean depart, it is in the context of depart from the faith. There is no way some one can take this scripture to mean the rapture has occurred. This is the problem with pre-trib arguments. They try to hold onto any little thing they can to prove their point. My question is, does the bible state that the rapture occurred here? No it does not. You have to read into it. I like some of the analysis you do with current events, and what is happening around us everyday, but I have to say that this is a stretch, and a far one. I guess people see what they want to see and hear what they wanr to hear. I have shown in my online book and radio program exactly where the rapture occurs in the bible. It is evident to anyone with an open mind. Here's the link:
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/teotwawkii2/2007/09/06/the-rapture
Oh, and I forgot one thing. Even if it means departure/rapture, then it is before the day of the Lord, which according to scripture is a day of wrath. Thus, the rapture will occur before God's wrath, which we are not appointed to. According to scripture, the wrath of God is the bowl judgments in revelations. Therefore, the day of the Lord will not come until before the wrath of God, which is after the tribulation.
Not to invite a debate here, but the entire post-trib argument is primarily based on that one verse in Rev 14:15. If that verse didn't exist, all of the other reasons for a post-trib rapture would not hold water.
Admittedly, I too "had" been keeping an open mind about a post-trib rapture because of Rev 14:15 as well, even though it violated the Jewish Wedding model and conflicted with several other verses supporting the pre-trib rapture model, including the following: 1 The 5:9 "For God did not appoint us to wrath" and Isa 26:20-21 "(20) Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. (21)For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
I'm now confident that the rapture is pre-trib because Pastor Dr. Renald Showers does a great job of explaining what that harvest mentioned in Rev 14:15 really is. The videos, most of which are short, are here and you only need to watch parts 1-10 and 18. I have since found older sermons by Pastor Floyd Jones and others who state the exact same thing as Pastor Dr. Showers. When you watch the videos, it will all make sense.
By the way, there's also more prophetic meaning to the barley, wheat and grape harvests than you might have realized that also corroborates a pre-trib rapture. This is related to the issue raised by Pastor Dr. Renald Showers. Read the following...
What are the main harvest seasons in Israel? The first harvest begins at Passover. It is the barley harvest. Barley and wheat are planted at the same time, but the barley ripens first. The first fruits of the barley harvest are waved at Passover. Barley is a soft grain. It is easily separated from the chaff by a process called winnowing. The Barley is caught up with a winnowing fork and thrown into the air (rapture). The chaff blows away and the barley is left.
This is a picture of the church. Those of us that have surrendered to Jesus during the church age are barley. Our hearts are soft toward God and we accept Him easily. Our harvest time began at Passover when Jesus was resurrected as the first fruits of salvation. Jesus fed the 5000 with barley loves and instructed his disciples to collect the remaining pieces so that nothing would be lost. We Christians will be collected at the end so that none are lost, but first we must be broken to feed the multitude. Our harvest time lasts until Pentecost when the wheat harvest begins. Just like the barley harvest, our harvest ends and a new harvest begins at Pentecost. At Pentecost, the first trump sounds and the barley harvest of Christians is finished. We are caught up into the air and separated from the chaff.
The second harvest in Israel is the wheat harvest. The wheat harvest begins at Pentecost. Wheat is a hard grain. It is not separated by winnowing like the barley. It must be threshed or beaten to separate the wheat from the chaff. This is a picture of the Tribulation Saints. They will be too hardened to go in the first rapture that takes place at the first trump on Pentecost. Jesus allows them to be beaten by the Antichrist until the harvest is separated from the chaff.
When they separated the wheat from the chaff, they used a board which they stood on while an animal pulled them over the wheat separating the grain. That board is called, in Latin, a ‘tribulum’ from which we get the word, ‘tribulation’. There is NO ‘tribulum’ used at Passover through Pentecost with the barley harvest. This harvest too ends and eventually a new harvest begins at Rosh Hashanah. At Rosh Hashanah the last trump sounds and it is time for the last harvest.
The final harvest in the fall is the grape harvest. The grapes must be crushed to harvest the wine. This represents those that will accept Jesus during the time of the trumpet judgments. They will be crushed but those that hang on will be the ones who repopulate the millennium. The grape harvest is over by Tabernacles.
There are three main harvests, barley, wheat and grapes. In each of the harvests there are three stages. The first stage is the first fruits. Jesus was the first fruit of the church age. Then comes the main harvest which has taken place over the centuries since the Resurrection. Finally there is the gleaning where the last remaining portion of the crop is gathered. We are in the gleaning phase now. Don’t be hard like wheat and miss out on the barley harvest. You don’t want to be threshed.
And as far as "possibly" finding more corroboration for the 6,000 year end of creation in 2017, please look at my message #11 at this link
Hello all. I come out of a church that teaches pre-tribulationism, and that is what I believed up to a couple of years ago. I ran across some excellent teaching which can be found here:
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/
Read the articles on the left side of the page. The author is VERY thorough and I'm sure he will clear up any questions you may have.
I truly believe that if you read this, you too will be convinced that we as the church need to prepare and expect to go through the tribulation soon to come.
I wish that were not the case, but what I wish is not important. Either way, it looks like we will know within a year or so which view is correct, eh?
Peace to you all.
Here's another link that ties in well with what has been covered over the past week that adds another piece to the puzzle. The early church understood the six days of creation equals 6000 years of human history prior to the return of Jesus Christ (a day is as a thousand years).
Check this out:
http://www.biblestudying.net/millennium.html
(Oh, and why do I have to re-register every time I want to post a comment? It tells me my password is wrong and I have to re-sign up...)
I heard many years ago, and don't remember how, just know it STUCK
with me, that the term "falling away" meant departure. e.g. as gravity holds us to this earth, we have to "fall away" from the earth...or raptured before the antichrist can come on the world scene - afterthe Holy Spirit is removed...through the Church being removed with the rapture.
I noticed your posts about Ceres, and also that you are planning on reading David Flynn's book. Well, you simply MUST read this new post made by David Flynn on his forum...Ceres gets an interesting mention. Again, you need to read this! God bless. :)
http://watcher.boardzero.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=129&view=unread#unread
Anonymous,
What was the name of the thread where he mentions Ceres?
I clicked the link you provided, but it took me to a 2 comment thread where there was no mention of it.
I'm itching to see what he adds to all of this. Thank you.
In Christ,
Jeff (JRed)
There’s no such thing as The Antichrist, and for a truly objective and conclusive refutation of the “secret pre-Trib. Rapture of the Saints,” check out
http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/096517171X
Jim,
I agree with the "no pre-trib rapture" part. Can you elaborate on the "no anti-christ" part? Are you suggesting that there will be no spiritually corrupt world leader that comes on the scene to deceive prior to the return of the Lord?
Hey JRed,
Don't mean to sound pushy, but how's that rapture thing coming?
If Danielstimeline.com is right (and I fully believe it is) then things kick off this fall and which means that is when the pretrib rapture should take place - or there-abouts.
I, however, think there will be many dissappointed christians when this does not take place. Our brothers and sisters need to understand this...
By the way, you are doing a fantastic job, and I praise the Lord for your ministry brother!
Hello,
with all due respect and for whatever it is worth, I would like to say that the explanation and interpretation that is given for the word apostasia, is TOTALLY unfounded by any
1. Greek dictionary which will not provide such an interpretation even in a metaphorical use ranked 5 or ten
2. the Greek language itself, of which I am a native speaker/user, university degree holder
One can make one's own research. Don't take my word for it. Simply open ANY Greek-English dictionary.
In addition I am obliged to point out the fact that such an interpretation violates the logic and syntax of the biblical text. Bear with me for a moment.
The chapter begins with a clear topic sentence.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Imho, Paul clearly states that he will talk to us about the rapture, "our gathering to Him".
Unless Paul speaks of another event, in which we are gathered to Him other than the rapture, there is a huge problem. Since Paul says that the day of the rapture will not come unless the 'apostasia' comes first. If we accept apostasia as rapture, we read again that the day of the rapture (our gathering to Him) will not happen until the rapture comes first!
Ending note.
According to Strong's the only other time that the word apostasia is used in the NT, is
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia from) Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Scripture explains scripture. Apostasia is CLEARLY used to describe the DEFECTION, FALLING AWAY from the commands of Moses-God.
As far as the use of the verb is concerned, it is a fact that the verb can be used in both ways, to denote rebellion and to denote a distancing. Prime example of the latter,
Luk 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed (apesti) from him for a season.
Yet look at the prime example of the former
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart (apostatisontai) from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Any chance that Timothy and Paul speak of the same falling away in the latter times?
The whole issue that is caused by the author's misinterpretation of the apostasia=departure=rapture, is due to the ignorance that there are TWO DISTINCT nouns that are derived from the verb 'afistimi' and mean two totally different things. There is the word "apostasi" and there is the word "apostasia". The former means "distance". The latter means rebellion, defection, MUTINY!
(again open ANY dictionary) or ask ANY Greek, scholar or uneducated-both words are still commonly used today and examples of its use in the days of the Lord are more than abundant.
GBU all. I learned years ago that the rapture should not be an issue of division, so long as pre tribers prepare their hearts for the remote possibility to face the man of sin. However, is these discussions we are obliged to keep the integrity of the textus receptus and not violate the staightforward meanings of words or verses in order to make them fit out preconceived conclusions-desires.
My brother JRed, this is the first time I visited this place and I am impressed and grateful for people like you still being out there. However it saddens me to be obliged to tell you that,imho, not only what you quoted should not "the best analysis of this whole debate" but (without having read the rest of the debate) I would suggest that this analysis is one of the most erroneous translation attempts that have been made and I would also suggest the greatest caution before bringing it to others as food for thought. In case you stubble upon any greek person, and then you hear the very typical, loud laughs. If this was not so serious, having to do with the Word of God, it would indeed be very funny.
I apologize for the length
Hello,
with all due respect and for whatever it is worth, I would like to say that the explanation and interpretation that is given for the word apostasia, is TOTALLY unfounded by any
1. Greek dictionary which will not provide such an interpretation even in a metaphorical use ranked 5 or ten
2. the Greek language itself, of which I am a native speaker/user, university degree holder
One can make one's own research. Don't take my word for it. Simply open ANY Greek-English dictionary.
In addition I am obliged to point out the fact that such an interpretation violates the logic and syntax of the biblical text. Bear with me for a moment.
The chapter begins with a clear topic sentence.
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
Imho, Paul clearly states that he will talk to us about the rapture, "our gathering to Him".
Unless Paul speaks of another event, in which we are gathered to Him other than the rapture, there is a huge problem. Since Paul says that the day of the rapture will not come unless the 'apostasia' comes first. If we accept apostasia as rapture, we read again that the day of the rapture (our gathering to Him) will not happen until the rapture comes first!
Ending note.
According to Strong's the only other time that the word apostasia is used in the NT, is
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake (apostasia from) Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Scripture explains scripture. Apostasia is CLEARLY used to describe the DEFECTION, FALLING AWAY from the commands of Moses-God.
As far as the use of the verb is concerned, it is a fact that the verb can be used in both ways, to denote rebellion and to denote a distancing. Prime example of the latter,
Luk 4:13 And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed (apesti) from him for a season.
Yet look at the prime example of the former
1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart (apostatisontai) from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Any chance that Timothy and Paul speak of the same falling away in the latter times?
The whole issue that is caused by the author's misinterpretation of the apostasia=departure=rapture, is due to the ignorance that there are TWO DISTINCT nouns that are derived from the verb 'afistimi' and mean two totally different things. There is the word "apostasi" and there is the word "apostasia". The former means "distance". The latter means rebellion, defection, MUTINY!
(again open ANY dictionary) or ask ANY Greek, scholar or uneducated-both words are still commonly used today and examples of its use in the days of the Lord are more than abundant.
GBU all. I learned years ago that the rapture should not be an issue of division, so long as pre tribers prepare their hearts for the remote possibility to face the man of sin. However, is these discussions we are obliged to keep the integrity of the textus receptus and not violate the staightforward meanings of words or verses in order to make them fit out preconceived conclusions-desires.
My brother JRed, this is the first time I visited this place and I am impressed and grateful for people like you still being out there. However it saddens me to be obliged to tell you that,imho, not only what you quoted should not "the best analysis of this whole debate" but (without having read the rest of the debate) I would suggest that this analysis is one of the most erroneous translation attempts that have been made and I would also suggest the greatest caution before bringing it to others as food for thought. In case you stubble upon any greek person, and then you hear the very typical, loud laughs. If this was not so serious, having to do with the Word of God, it would indeed be very funny.
I apologize for the length
menas,
Thanks for visiting and for sharing your thoughts and insights.
No need to apologize here since I firmly believe that "iron sharpens iron" and I also firmly believe that this is all part of the process of spiritual growth.
I am always clear that the things I write should ALWAYS be taken under prayerful consideration to God, and that we should seek His wisdom and discernment on such things.
I'm glad you are now a part of this community and that you shared your "insider" info with the rest of us because that simply becomes another piece to this Rapture puzzle.
I believe that a literal Rapture event will take place. Regardless of what I believe about when this event will occur, I am READY FOR ALL POSSIBILITIES whether that means escaping the Tribulation or having to endure it for some period of time.
Again, I thank you for being here and look forward to receiving your perspective on some of the other issues presented in this forum.
In Christ,
Jeff (JRed)
You have alot of info and I am just begining to look at your site. I have been studying these scripture for many years and God has put it on my heart to write about them. I was planning to retire in May this year and work on a mission to young people on the internet. I would be honored if you all would give me your views.
Thank you for your time.
Menas, you are spot on.
JRed, may I suggest you include some other rapture views in your links at the bottom of the page. We should give all positions equal time and let the reader decide which is the Scriptural view.
Will you please link this page so your readers can have the information...?
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/
Peace!
Did it ever occur to anyone that there may be more than one rapture??? Was Jesus more or less raptured??? How about the saints that came up from the grave after the resurrection of Jesus??? Remember those he led to heaven from a place called Paradise??? The church, the two witness, the 144000 that will be beheaded during the tribulation??? Remember Jesus didn't fit the mold for Messiah for a large number of Jews.. Stephen
Thanks for the site! I agree with JRed that we all need to be open to all possibilities and not discredit any, but with prayerful consideration, ask for guidance in putting the whole puzzle together. After all, we are told to study, to look up, and to watch. I have always leaned toward a pretrib view and still think (hope) this is the scenario. I heard an interesting idea lately that the first four seals of Revelation were opened in the garden and thus are describing the curse and in that no particular prophecy is assinged to them (there are always wars, famine, pestilence, etc.) The fifth seal is now souls of dead martyrs through the ages and the sixth, the rapture. I just thought it was a interesting viewpoint. As soon as the fall, God put the plan of redemption into place. I also think a pretrib view follows the Jewish wedding model better (I go and prepare a place for you.) Either way, we need to be ready for tribulation if this is not the case. However, it has occured to me lately that the deception that is taking over the world is so sinister, that only a rescue from this earth by God himself may be our only way out of it...
Sorry for the long post. I'll be watching!
Greetings Anonymous,
Here's the thing about "interesting ideas" - They need to be set aside when they don't stand up to close Scriptural scrutiny, and the "first four seals in the Garden" theory does not.
Here's why...
Revelation 1:1a - "The revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place."
Revelation 22:6 - "The angel said to me, "These words are trustworthy and true. The Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent his angel to show his servants the things that must soon take place."
You see, the book of Revelation is a book of FUTURE events - events that were to take place after the vision was given to John. The Garden is a past event, so no go on that theory.
We should take great care not to make God's Word say something it does not...
Revelation 22:18-19 - "I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."
Watch out for "interesting ideas". Put them to the test of the whole of Scripture, and discard those that fail.
Also, I read an article a couple of years ago about how there is no solid historical evidence that the Jewish wedding tradition espoused by those like Zola Levitt even existed. Unfortunatlely, I can not find where that is now, but if I do, I will pass it on. (And just so you know, I had taught that the pre-trib rapture was a fact prior to that and used Zola's book "A Christian Love Story" as the "evidence". I had to change my view when better teaching came along...)
Unworthy 1
I agree that I should really check out all theories with the Bible. This one I have not, just wanted to throw it out there. Thanks for the input..
I used anonoymus last post:)
for lunar and solar eclipse (moon turned to blood and sun darkened) to occur on Jewish holidays (Passover and Roshshshanna for exanple) and foretold thousands of years prior to the event means the event and eclipse was put into the plan before the universe was created. You just don't change those things. To hit a planet with a rocket light years away you have to know where it will be upon arrival of the rocket. It wasn't put into effect after the fall but eons before. Stephen
FOR PRETRIB RAPTURE REPEATERS
Congratulations! You are now fulfilling the Bible which says "Come now, and let us repeat together."
Be sure to repeat what Walvoord, Lindsey, LaHaye, Ice etc. repeat what their own teachers repeat what their own teachers repeat etc. etc. etc.!
Repeat that Christ's return is imminent because we're told to "watch" (Matt. 24, 25) for it. So is the "day of God" (II Pet. 3:12) - which you admit is at least 1000 years ahead - also imminent because we're told to be "looking for" it?
Also repeat the pretrib myths about the "Jewish wedding stages" and "Jewish feasts" (where's your "church/Israel dichotomy" now?) even though Christ and Paul knew nothing about a "pretrib stage" and neither did any official theological creed or organized church before 1830!
You should read "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" on the "Powered by Christ Ministries" site to find out why you shouldn't repeat everything your pretrib teachers repeat.
Do I have to repeat this?
Hello Anonymous Repeat,
While I do agree with you that the Pre-trib rapture is based on faulty exegesis of the Scriptures, I don't think the way to convince fellow believers otherwise is to criticize them for believing it. I think the best way is to provide them with a clearer understanding of what the Scriptures really say about the subject. Like you said, they believe it because it is what they have been taught. If they are given better instruction, some may change their minds. I've found that few will listen if we just hammer "YOU'RE WRONG!" down their throats...
Peace
A couple other articles for thinkers would be "Pretrib Rapture - Hidden Facts" and "Pretrib Rapture Dishonesty" - two reasons why the web is experiencing its own "global warming" these days! Ronald
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