FOR THE RECORD:
Let's start here because there seems to be some confusion...
> Yes, I will readily admit that I could be wrong on several interpretations and positions I currently hold, and will gladly and humbly admit my error if (or once) I come to a new realization.
While I appreciate the persistent attempts to "correct" me, I think we should agree to disagree on this subject at least for now. I have a better idea. PRAY FOR ME if you are one of those who feels so strongly about my perceived "error" and blindness. Just let go and let God. Besides, it's not like I'm charged with being in error regarding a fundamental tenet of our SHARED faith. What I believe about the Rapture has absolutely no bearing on my salvation, which is firmly secured in the shed blood of my - - no, our - - Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, right? Proverbs 25:2 and 1 Corinthians 13:12 keeps me grounded in that sense. Oh yeah, as does 1 Corinthians 1, which seems quite appropriate during these Rapture studies.
> Yes, I believe in a literal Rapture event.
This is precisely why I've named this ministry the Look Up Fellowship. I don't hide that fact, and people know from the first time they sign on to the website what my belief on this subject is. If you choose to stop by willingly and of your own volition then it should be with the expectation that you're going to encounter some commentaries pertaining to my views on the Rapture.
> No, the word "Rapture" isn't in the Holy Bible.
Neither is the word "Trinity," but we believe in that, right? "Harpazo" (har-pad'-zo) is the Greek word which the New Testament translators have rendered as "caught up." That's in the Bible. Why is that important and relevant to this discussion? Again, let's look at the Holy Bible. "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up [Greek, harpazo] to the Third Heaven" (2 Corinthians 12:2). "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the LORD in the air: and so shall we ever be with the LORD" (1 Thessalonians 4:17). The word "Rapture" is taken from an obsolete French word, which means "abduction" or "to carry off." Though Greek scholars may refrain from using "Rapture" to translate "harpazo," I don't believe it is a wresting of Scripture for the honest Christian to see the connection between the two. "According to your faith be it unto you" (Matthew 9:29). Take this under prayerful consideration to our Lord.
> That being said, there have been several thought-provoking points made in the Comments Section, and I want you all to know that just because I don't respond directly doesn't mean I'm not reading them, taking them to heart under prayerful consideration, or that I don't appreciate them - - I do. That being said, someone made the point to the effect of "all in the Ark remaind on the Earth. Lot and his family remaind on the Earth. I'm not saying we will not escape, but we will remain on the Earth."
This is certainly a good thought, and it's certainly plausible. My thinking is that Jesus Christ is our "Ark" (an archetype - - "ark-type" [pun intended] - - of Noah's Ark). So, if that's the case, then wouldn't we need to go to Him, go to our "Ark," when it's time for our escape?
> To clarify, while I may have mentioned Enoch at times in the previous Rapture articles I do not believe that I ever once wrote that Jesus said "as in the days of ENOCH..." because that would've been a gross error on my part. If I did, I can assure you that it was a typo and I apologize for any confusion. We're PLAINLY told that it will be "as in the days of NOAH..." See Matthew 24:37 for reference.
JUST A FEW MORE THOUGHTS AFTER A WHIRLWIND OF A WEEK HERE...
Raise your hand if you're part of the "Rapture Cult" as it's been called by some. Yes, that's right, can I see a show of hands please?
I really don't mean to make light of something that has its roots in the Holy Bible (and something that's such an important topic for discussion with Christians worldwide), but sometimes you just need to step back and see the big picture.
By the way, if you could see me right now then you'd be viewing me with my hand straight up in the air as far as I can reach. Yes, I am a proud member of the "Rapture Cult" indeed. Hence, the name of this ministry - - Look Up Fellowship.
Look, I get that some of my Brothers and Sisters in Christ think that I am wrong about the Rapture - - wrong about it all. That's fine. I get why they want to try to correct me from what they perceive to be my "error." I'm the same with with family and friends about other issues. I get it. I do.
Why don't we just chalk it all up to this: I've made my point. You've made your point. We can agree to disagree. Let's let go and let God. He'll work it out in our own lives in His own perfect timing according to His own perfect will. All we can do is plant the seeds since He's the One who determines if and when they grow. Consider the seeds planted.
Don't get me wrong, there's a reason why I included a Comments Section to each article on this blog. I encourage everyone to share their views even if it conflicts with my own. Again, let's always remember Proverbs 27:17 and the "iron sharpens iron" truth. However, I do think there's a limit to it all. I mean, to continue the incessant back-and-forth seems like splitting hairs to me. After all, we're NOT talking about a fundamental tenet of the Christian faith like one's salvation, in which case I could totally understand a person's all out attempt to shake me free from the deception and delusion I had fallen under because it it were regarding something like that, then I'm not only putting my own soul at risk, but also the souls of tens of thousands worldwide. Needless to say, not good.
Quite honestly, this is why I do not have any desire whatsoever to debate my fellow Christian brethren. None whatsoever. I have a calm and peace in my spirit if that means anything. Surely, some will suggest that I'm taking the easy way out and not debating because I can't make my case. Friends, I feel I have made my case. My commentaries that I write here - - often times 3-4 separate ones each and every day - - are so detailed, so thorough, that if you can't see that I'm "making my case" in them then I'd have to say you're not reading what I wrote.
Besides, typically, there's not much more I can add to them once I'm finished. Come on, I know all of you can agree that those "War And Peace" type, lengthy columns are enough to leave anyone feeling spent afterwards. That's why I often apologize for not being able to respond to many of you in the Comments Sections or via email. There's simply not enough time! Between researching and writing these daily entries, trying to keep a small business open, spending time with my family when I'm not trying to provide for them, there's only so much this red-head can handle in a day, I'm sorry.
I feel the urgency to share my thoughts about this subject, but I'm just so burdened and overwhelmed sometimes by the amount of controversy and division it causes within the Body of Christ. I still have much to say about this topic though so I'm not abandoning it any time soon. My friendly advice would be that if my position is going to only aggravate and frustrate you then you might want to take a vacation from Look Up Fellowship for the next week, check back in later, and return to our regularly scheduled program.
My dear friends, also know that I am not proclaiming to speak for God. Never been arrogant enough to do that, and I never will. All I've done is write as honest, open, and transparent as I can with all of you about my own personal spiritual journey to date. That includes how I've arrived - - then left - - then came back - - then left again - - and now have returned again to various positions on the hotly contested "escape," which I see as being synonymous with what we commonly call the Rapture.
I'm sorry that some people don't like that. Last I checked, this was a Blog that I created in response to the promptings of the Holy Spirit. I've put my name on it rather than lurking behind an anonymous moniker at the risk of personal and professional alienation. That's how much I love our God.
It's ironic because the theme of the week for me here and outside of cyberspace has definitely been squarely focused upon my need to foster stronger bonds and relationships with family and friends without sacrificing what it is I truly believe in and stand for. I have quite a few unexpected "run-ins" with some family members this week that left me in tears. I'm sure many of you have had similar moments lately. My point is that you are all my Brothers and Sisters in Christ. You're my family too! We my be different in that we hold different views about the Rapture, and "Aliens"/Nephilim, and such but WE HAVE THE SAME FATHER! More, we believe in Him and of what He did for us!
That's our common ground. That's what really matters in the end. That's why I refuse to debate any more. The hour is too late. There's much to be done and written. The time is now. I thank you all for letting me "vent" a little this evening. I sincerely can't wait until we're all on the other side of Heaven and we embrace with a big smile and just laugh over these types of things.
Whether you believe in an "escape" or a "Rapture" or not - - keep looking up for Him! Please pray that you are counted worthy to escape the things to come.
MARANATHA!!!
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36 Comments:
AMEN!
Thank you SO MUCH for your dedication and energy. I believe you are truly anointed by the Holy Spirit with your insights. I so enjoy following your path of discovery. The book of Revelation is the only book that promises a blessing for those who read and study it. After such study, if I thought I had to live through the events described, I Know I wouldn't feel very blessed! Grace
Thank you brother. Your humility really shines through! You are an example to all despite what our individual beliefs are regarding the rapture or any other biblical position.
I appreciate your heart. After walking with the Lord for nearly 40 years now and studying His Word, I have come to realize that I could preach with compelling evidence of Pre- mid- and post trib. When asked about this subject by others, my response is "Pray for pre; Prepare for post." Either way, we are promised we can dwell in the shelter of the Most High.
JRed,
I want to thank you for creating this blog!! Two of my family members and I have been intensely studying the end times and the Bible since January. When we started, we found your website and have checked it daily since then!
I can't tell you how often we have been on the "same wavelength" over this course of time. There have been so many times that we were discussing a certain scripture or topic and you wrote about it the next day! Brother, I don't see that as a coincidence. I believe it is the Holy Spirit.
You have taken our ideas and expanded on them with all of your research. You have helped us by putting the pieces together, not to mention...saving US research time in the process. Your dedication to this site has taught us soooo much and I am eternally thankful.
I want you to know that I was a believer in a pre-wrath rapture, BEFORE your recent posts. Now, I am a firm believer in pre-trib. You have provided so much evidence and backed it up with scripture. Frankly, I don't see how anyone can think otherwise.
A while ago, I had read the scripture "to pray that we are worthy to escape these things". I had been saying that in my prayers. But, I wasn't sure exactly how much I could "escape". However, you have showed me how important that prayer really is. I can't tell you how much this has helped me spiritually.
Please don't get discouraged by some of the comments. I honestly believe that the Holy Spirit is working in you and using you to help others spiritually. I am keeping you and your family in my prayers. I look forward to meeting you and your family in Heaven, so I can personally thank you!
Your sister in Christ,
KT
I don't even waste my time debating with naysayers...Some people are just looking to argue and debate..that's all they live for.It is not even about Yeshua and the Bible..it's all about winning an argument, that's just my humble opinion;) My hand is raised high..looking up for our Redemption. Escape theology....Rapture Cult...whatever you want to call it yes I'm all for it!!!!! Pray that you escape all these things..YES, YES, YES!!!! Praise Yeshua!!!!Maranatha!!!
Hey JRed! Even if I don't agree with everything you say, it always makes me THINK about the topic. Keep doing what you're doing! :)
People will always disagree. Always have, always will. A lot of what we discuss is just speculation.
I mean, many of us are convinced we are about to see the beginning of Daniels prophecy. We could be completely off base. It could still be 1000 years away. None of us really know for sure.
I enjoy reading different opinions because they always contain nuggets of new information which I never considered. Sometimes that HELPS me see where I've gone wrong!
This site has actually helped me want to get closer to God. It's been a real blessing
JRed,
Right on! I very much enjoy your style of expressing your thoughts/insights/discoveries and I've marveled at how you have enough time in your day to produce the quality and depth of discussion - it surely can't be easy, but it is truly appreciated. Perhaps some encouraging words for you from the Holy Bible after this trying week:
I Corinthians 2:9 - "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."
Hebrews 12:2 - "Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God."
Philippians 2:16 - "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."
Philippians 3:14 - "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
Dear Brother Jeff,
I want you to know that I am an avid reader of your site. I find it fascinating. I do believe we will be here throughout the tribulation and the great tribulation - only removed before the wrath of God falls upon the earth. I also believe that you are a Godly man who is willing to seek the Lord in all things. You are so right to suggest instead of debating the issue so intensely we should pray for the Lord to show us all His complete truth in this matter. If we had done that 10 years ago we all might be further along in our walk and in closer unity in our Lord.
One thing I do know, if we go through this terrible time I will be there for ALL my brothers and sisters. The rapture is not what I call “an issue unto salvation”. We will all know the answer to this question soon enough.
As a dear friend once told me… many Godly people die suddenly every day. For them it was the rapture. Later my Father and my Sister, both very Godly people died in separate freak accidents several months after 9/11. I have always thought they were counted worthy to escape these days - their gentle souls were not meant for a world such as this.
So, bottom line - I am okay with agreeing to disagree and love always those who love (and obey) the Lord our Father and His precious Son, our Redeemer!!
-- Blessings, Beth
Although I have never commented I appreciate your taking the time to post.
Jennifer
I truly appreciate a calm, sincere "let's agree to disagree" stance. Why is it that this issue triggers the most division and "dis-unity" arguments among believers? We seem to slip into legalistic beliefs quickly; and some post-tribber believers seem to be very rigid, demeaning, and even angry towards others points of view. If the body of Christ is not careful, we may be too busy to even notice when He does come. Let's not repeat this mistake again.
fully agree with you, those others who do not agree with you, can get their own blog and put their own view in that....this is your blog so keep putting your idea's thoughts whatevers in here and lets get on with it...I love your blog and come back to it every day, sometimes even twice God Bless you real Good...
I've become addicted to this site : )
oh and my hand was up as high as yours except I am probably not as tall as you are!{:o))
What if, when the Heavenly Cavalry comes to pluck the Bride, the Damsel in Distress, and make good her escape and carry Her to a place of Safety, i.e.,
The Father's House with that newly finished addition the Son built on
- what if many of the Big Names of Christendom, The “Christian” Celebs who often spoke of and wrote of the Rapture, are left standing and "Looking Up" and wondering what just happened?
They are scratching their heads along with wailing their lungs out and putting on sackcloth and ashes and asking "why did I not disappear along with all the rest?"
Deep inside, they know what just happened. They got Left Behind – some of the most prominent of the very ones who so publicized the concept of The Rapture to the public, but in that effort let down their guard and made friends with the world as they enjoyed the centered attention appearing on the Larry King shows and working the lecture circuit and speaking at conventions and churches as the audiences fawned and pawed them… as they enjoyed the windfall of the book royalties that kept rolling in.
They forgot what Christ taught, the important instructions of what to expect when they became his disciples – to prepare to be HATED by the world, to be vilified, to be viewed in contempt, to be spat upon, to be made social outcasts. How could they have so completely forgotten?
They had turned into the Reverend Rufus Glittertooth!
What to do? All those people who had just disappeared?
Rationales were whirring to explain them away. Why, they couldn’t really have been the true Christians, the actual Bride of Christ.
They were outcasts and weird, unfashionable, unpopular, not team players and among the dregs of society.
And about that very moment shadows were being cast upon the crestfallen “Christians”.
As they looked up, they saw the answer – Superconstructions hanging in the sky acting as the counterbalance that appeared just as the mass of people disappeared.
The Alien Spacecraft that they had preached about, which were going to be used in the Great Delusion to fool the world population to prepare the way for the AntiChrist.
Yes! All the disappeared had been taken aboard these cities in the air. They were echoing what they previously had taught that the New Agers would be saying at the Rapture and that is that the vanished were bad people who obstructed the way for a New Order of the Ages. These had to be cleansed off the Earth.
That’s why they were gone.
Hypocrites now, fraught for an excuse, any excuse to explain away why they were still standing with feet planted in the ground and trying to cancel their uncomfortable Presence in the face of the mass Absence. This was their face-saving means of escape – to escape the dreadful thoughts and feelings of abject rejection by God.
Christian writer C. S. Lewis once taught that God would ultimately be completely fair to all humans. God would make sure to give to each person an eternal destiny which matched - not what each person had verbalized what they desired in the afterlife - but rather what their life course and conduct clearly demonstrated what they really desired as their eternal reward.
jred
thanks for acknowledging that you could be wrong. none of us are perfect!!!
but I beg to differ here! you are playing with hell fire, if and when you draw GODS children away from the truth.
Ezekiel 13:17-23 Likewise, thou son of man, set thy face against the daughters of thy people, which prophesy out of their own heart; and prophesy thou against them, And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you? And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies? Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them FLY. and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them FLY. Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the LORD. Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life: Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
GOD clearly explanes what will happen to those, who teach his children to fly to save thier souls. right here in ezekiel!
Ezekiel 13:6-9 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word. Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken? Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because ye have spoken vanity, and seen lies, therefore, behold, I am against you, saith the Lord GOD. And mine hand shall be upon the prophets that see vanity, and that divine lies: they shall not be in the assembly of my people, neither shall they be written in the writing of the house of Israel, neither shall they enter into the land of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the Lord GOD.
this is why we must be very carefull to teach only GODS words,
and not become polluted with vain imaginations!!!!!
Jeremiah 23:29-32 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD; and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces? Therefore, behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour. Behold, I am against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith. Behold, I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
Jeremiah 23:23-28 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off? Can any hide himself in secret places that I shall not see him? saith the LORD. Do not I fill heaven and earth? saith the LORD. I have heard what the prophets said, that prophesy lies in my name, saying, I have dreamed, I have dreamed. How long shall this be in the heart of the prophets that prophesy lies? yea, they are prophets of the deceit of their own heart; Which think to cause my people to forget my name by their dreams which they tell every man to his neighbour, as their fathers have forgotten my name for Baal. The prophet that hath a dream, let him tell a dream; and he that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully. What is the chaff to the wheat? saith the LORD.
remember the rapture doctorine came from a self confesing medium in a dream! a girl by the name of margaret mcdonold in the 1830s. do not be fooled?
Jeremiah 14:14-16 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart. Therefore thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not, yet they say, Sword and famine shall not be in this land; By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed. And the people to whom they prophesy shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.
again be very carefull!
Isaiah 59:1-5 Behold, the LORD'S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with iniquity; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. None calleth for justice, nor any pleadeth for truth: they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. They hatch cockatrice' eggs, and weave the spider's WEB: he that eateth of their eggs dieth, and that which is crushed breaketh out into a viper.
Isaiah 9:14-16 Therefore the LORD will cut off from Israel head and tail, branch and rush, in one day. The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail. For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
2 Timothy 3:10-17 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me. Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
listen to the apostles!!!!!
2 Thessalonians 2:3-12 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
if you want to continue to believe alie that is up to you, but you have been warned by GOD himself!!!
and you will recieve the strong delusion, of those who refuse the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!
GOD help all in your will, to except the TRUTH !!!!!
john
I will concede right along with you that none of us speak for God. The only thing I KNOW 100% without a doubt is that no one truly knows until the very end. Thank you for the heart felt contemplations to all of the comments. To quibble the details will force us to miss the greater work of settling it in our hearts to create an intimate relationship with God by following the path shown to us by our greatest role model Jesus. God bless you and your writings. Thank you.
I'm always just a bit stunned by people that say that what is in the bible doesn't mean what it says or that it doesn't say something that it obviously does.
It always comforts me though, that "these things are spiritually discerned" and saddens me a bit too.
The most venom I've ever seen though was shown by someone that denies that Jesus is God. They become almost vicious in defense of that belief.
God Bless,
Ok,,JRed,,Good job, keep up the good work, MYITAUT!!!!!!!!!
JoeBenLow, aka, john::::
You need to go back and do a little more studying and get your 'ducks in a row', cause the pretrib viewpoint was taught by the early Church leaders[through Paul and John up to approx. 300ad or so], and was NOT initiated by some gal in the 1800's. Don't know where you acquired that info, but it is bunk.
There is more than one reason why the Body/Bride CAN NOT be present on Earth during the 70th.wk. of Daniel's Prophecy, and they are not really that difficult to 'root' out if one so chooses:-}
I have one bit of 'evidence' that the Lord led me to, and it pretty well convinces me and that is the answer to just WHO the 24 Elders are in Rev.. One person is even so messed up that they considered them to be 'angels' which they are definitely NOT. Their DESCRIPTION fits only ONE group in history, and that GROUP is the Body/Bride of Christ/Messiah;-}
They are there for the 'revealing' of the ONE that CAN open the Kinsman Redeemer scroll in Father's Hand,ie, the Lamb of God.
So, the Church/Body/Bride is present in the Throne Room BEFORE the First Seal is opened, which REQUIRES a Pretrib Rapture:-}
Soon and very soon,
MYITAUT
Dave
Blessings all brothers and sisters in Christ
I have for a long time been troubled by the rapture ie pre mid post trib
Until recently that is i truly believe the Lord has helped me to understand there are 3 harvests
Barley rapture pre trib all those who are spirit filled Christians now on earth shall be raptured BEFOE tribulation starts then Wheat harvest rapture half way through the tribulation period then Grape harvest those who are left at the end of the tribulation period
The Lord lead me to search the Lords feasts and i found this very interesting i do believe it is for Christians and Jews to look at these feasts as they are NOT jewish feasts they are the LORDS feasts Barley is very easy to seperate it comes apart by using air it is the first of the grains to ripen we are the Lords first fruits when we are taken then the wheat which is harder to seperate it needs a bit of battering the 144000 and the great multide i believe they are the wheat and once we have gone shall become another first fruits they shall be next to be harvested (raptured) mid way through the 7 year tribulation. In revelations It speaks of the wheat harvest the great multidude are all those who are taken OUT of the tribulation which means they had to be in it. Then follows the grapes last to ripen grapes as you know are trodden under foot this harvest happens here on earth they are not raptured out because they are harvested at the end when the Lord comes back WITH his saints (all those previously raptured)
in revelations it speaks of the wheat harvest and the grape harvest no mention of barley because we are already gone to be with our Lord Hallelujah!
I would say to anyone pray for knowledge and search out the LORDS feasts!
:)
well said Jeff.
- but than again: consider it to be a compliment, all the comments ! It means that a lot are reading your posts,
and in a serious way. Which is exactly, what your goal is with this blog..:)
- no: I guess the details aren t necessary, yet, to agree about. In VERY short time, we ll find out...
thanks again
Lone
Yes the tears we shed from wounds inflicted by those we call our family on Earth those do have a special sting...(sadly separating us from those we love like the mourning that accompanies death...)
Sting of death where is your victory? The sting of death is,and was overcome, by the Firstfruit Overcomer...Praise Yah! It is finished and death the last enemy shall bow to life at the feet of the Master of Life...soon!
Every season has a harvest...that indicates more than the traditional concept of one harvest only...There is one harvest that is FIRST...not all are gathered in at the same time? (That would explain why there is so much confusion over an issue of the harvest now wouldn't it? "Some" produce matures in a later season than the firstfruits..."Some" of those who do exploits and teach and instruct many shall be helped with a "little" help but "some" shall fall...to be purged and made clean and white.(without spot or wrinkles in a seamless garment that covers...)
I had an alternate idea occur to me that doesn't fit any of the former molds and thought I would share it as an interesting food for thought. The Apostles escaped the agony of hardships through their faith, but did not escape the actual hardships themselves. They may have been scourged and burned at the stake, but God released them through their faith. Even Jesus endured all of the hardships, but no where does it say that Jesus "suffered" during that time. What if it were like that? That we all faced the coming tribulation, but those who have faith, it would not phase you in the least. After all, pain is not a real object, but it is a phenomenon that occurs in the mind in reaction to harsh external stimuli.
I think Anonymous was a bit harsh with Jred saying that he should be careful in what he says in that he might be misleading people to believe in a lie of a pre-tribulation. Bottom line is that Jred has said above and beyond ANYTHING else is that we need to have an intimate relationship with God, which I believe. It is my opinion, that if you do that, it doesn't matter if you believe in pre-tribulation, you will have the foundation to endure a post tribulation. Jred, keep on doing what you are doing!!! Whether we agree on the details or not, you promote the most important aspect of them all, which is to pray daily and know and love your God.
JRed,
My hand is raised HIGH too.
Brother, thanks for your heart for God you manifest in your blog and dedication. AS you , I also pitch my tent in the pre-trib. camp. AS I have for years, I continue to study and find some merit in all positions.Before even Noah and Lot I am intrigued with Enoch and what God was revealing to us in the latter times with his translation. He was and then he wasn't and the world continued its downward slide. All i know that i know that i know at the end of the day i listen to the still small voice within me that points me to the position i believe from the evidence and analysis. I accept i may be wrong and I will be seeking you folk here in that case. Perhaps God has left this doctrine nebulous to draw us closer to Him and each other in the body? Regardless, the "religious" stances i observe bringing forth judgment and maybe condemnation remind me of the apostles' argument over greatness in Luke 9:46-48 as our Lord sadly looked on wishing they would just stick with Him.
Dave, you have made some interesting assertions and accusations, but have not backed them up with anything meaningful. If you are going to say that such and such evidence exists, then provide it. I have read most of the writings from the early church fathers in the first 2-3 centuries of the church, and you are just flat out wrong. No where have I seen evidence that the early church taught a pre-trib rapture (with one possible exception in "The Shepherd of Hermas" that has been previously discussed).
JRed, you know I love you brother. I too believe in a Rapture of the Church. I just disagree with the timing of it. Keep up the fantastic work and the thought provoking posts, and again, thank you for allowing debate on the subjects you write about.
For those of you who don't like debate, that is very unwise of you. The lack of debate in our churches today is one reason why most Christians are spiritually ignorant. We sit there and let our preachers and pastors tell us what to believe and we are not encouraged (or allowed) to question what they say, and most Christians are too lazy to even look at their bibles to see if they are being told the whole truth. Don't knock debate. It is necessary to weed out error. It should be conducted in a spirit of brotherhood and love and respect for one another, however and I have seen both sides of this debate forget that.
Jolly in Jesus, please study up on the grape harvest a bit more and I think you will see that the grapes represent the wicked whom the Lord destroys in the winepress of His wrath, spilling their blood. Not sure how you can envision this group as believers.
God am,
While i have left off from chatting and leaving comments on these matters, i will say that i still find it interesting to read what people think of me and my timely or untimely appearance in this world. But i will tell you this, it will be soon, but it will take much cooperation by friends who are ready to be with me at His right hand.
If there is a way and desire to contact and discuss this subject then put up a comment here below and will gladly discuss the matter.
Here is wisdom, what people cannot see is the encryption that is written into the Bible for my eyes to see first and to open the mysteries at the opening of the 7 seals.
Are any of you interested?
in Him
in Truth and Trust
messiah,
yes that's right, you are reading correctly
Welcome Joseph. Do you have something to share with us?
I've got BOTH hands up, but please don't shoot! Kidding aside, thank you for your hard work.
I've strayed from the pre-trib rapture a number of times, but then there's always been something that didn't quit fit with the other views and I've returned to it over and over again. It just seems to work with Scripture as a whole, which it should, since that is its origin.
I recommend Anonymous "remember the rapture doctorine came from a self confesing medium in a dream! a girl by the name of margaret mcdonold in the 1830s. do not be fooled?" read an article entitled "Margaret MacDonald Who?" at http://www.raptureready.com/rr-margaret-mcdonald.html for some accurate information about the history of the doctrine of the rapture.
I praise God that He is working in your life JRed. He is using your interest in the Rapture to encourage many, myself included. I have always found your blog interesting, informative and spiritually stimulating even though I haven't always agreed with everything you've written. But then, who of us hasn't gone down a rabbit trail now and then. The important thing is to get back on track as soon as possible. Keep up the good work!
bonnie
I tried your web adress several times, seems it does not exist.
much like the rapture!!!!!!
you have been listening to collage trained corporate christians for to long! remove all of their pre concieved luciferian garbage from your head, because you are being fooled.
here is a real web site I suggest you go to and learn the truth!
http://www.christianmedianetwork.com/
may CHRIST pullyou out of the darkness!!!!!!!
john
Bonnie,
I found that article, very good, one of my favorite sites:) Naysayers may say what they wish about the rapture, but M.McDonald definitely did not "invent" it. Maranatha!
Hi Bonnie,
Just tried the link you suggested and it worked fine. Not sure why the post above me said different. Thanks for including it. I am looking up also. Also, thanks for this site JRed.
Hello Bonnie and the rest of my pre-trib brothers and sisters...
I checked out that website article and the author is probably right in his conclusion that using the Margret MacDonald argument is a pretty weak one against a pre-trib rapture.
Notice I have had no need to use it, because the pre-trib rapture's weakness is exposed when it is compared to the whole of Scripture, as I have effectively demonstrated over the past couple of weeks. I have also shown that it was not the historical and orthodox view of the early church.
I wonder, is anyone out there acutally seeking the truth, or do you only read up on the things that support the ideas that you already hold?
Here's another opportunity for you to make an informed decision...
http://www.answersinrevelation.org/
There is plenty of evidence on this site for you to consider.
If the pre-trib rapture is more Scriptural, then you should be able to show why the evidence for the post-trib rapture is weak by refuting the author's evidence.
Go for it...
Keep studying JRed--I've been reading your work for a few weeks now and I've been blessed. The misguided soul who argues post trib position will get just what he is trying to convince others--a walk down disaster lane which at some point will probably be required to give his life for Christ.
Let me throw another one at you. If we look closely, we see the angel ascending to seal the 144,000. Why would he be ascending? Because they are Israelites who are also members of the church, thus they have been raptured, awaiting their sealing to preach and sing a new song to those left behind at the rapture. Yes, they will have their new bodies to offer as proof of the truth of the rapture and the ability to sing a new song that only they can learn in order to lead those left behind to the Lord. Satan will have his supernatural representatives and the Lord will have His. Rev. 7 and Rev. 14 reveal these truths.
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