NOTE: The reason I'm including this here and suggesting there might be an ounce of truth to all of this is due to my belief that God does allow false prophets and false prophecy to an extent to fulfill His perfect will and purposes for mankind because this is in accordance with His nature we're told about in 2 Peter 3:9.
I want to be VERY CAREFUL here because despite my eagerness and excitement I do not want to offend God in any way. I write that because I don't want to give the impression as though I place more faith in man and his creation (technology) than I do in Him our Lord God who created EVERYTHING in the entire universe. Hopefully, that goes without saying, but just in case I wanted to start with that right off the bat.
Ok, I'm not sure how much faith (if any) we should put into the "science" known as "Web Bot Predictive Analysis" since it might be about as reliable for accurately "predicting" the future as the infamous "Bible Codes," but I just came across something that absolutely needs to be mentioned here.
Apparently, according to the latest Web Bot Project research:
"2009: Disappearance language gets more specific. Big changes. Some of the 'powers that be' will disappear. 'Powers that be' will be out and about with large groups of people with them and they will all disappear. There is 'stuff' in the model space (of the web bot) that goes through the idea of 'disappearances' (relating to extraterrestrials). It's as if an inter-dimensional door opens up and people are sucked though the door and the door closes."
Actually, this information is not really all that "new" since it was first discovered back in late 2008. You can listen to the 5-minute Coast To Coast AM clip HERE. In case this is all new to you, the Web Bot Project is responsible for accurately forecasting 9/11 as well as the current global economic crisis amongst other things. What's truly remarkable is that the official title of the report was "Web Bots Predict Mass Disappearances for Early 2009."
Friends, I kid you not. The time frame given in that October 2008 analysis was for PRECISELY this moment in time - - the time frame we've targeted in the last Rapture column "Date With Destiny?" for events foretold in the Bible to occur as prophesied thousands of years ago.
It is interesting to note that none of the people associated with this project are Christians (at least not that I could tell), and yet, their software program has predicted mass disappearances of people through some type of interdimensional "portal" in the universe beginning in early 2009. I looked up the word "door" in Greek (Jesus says "I am the door") and it actually means "portal" so that was unexpected. They go on to say that it is not the Christian Rapture, but in describing what they see approaching, they describe the Rapture perfectly - - they just don't know it.
Another interesting forecast they detail is some type of "evangelical confession" of sorts prior to these mass disappearances. They somehow see evangelicals (not fundamentalist Christians) coming forward publicly and confessing the errors of their ways. To me (and, of course, unbeknownst to them) they were PERFECTLY describing Matthew 25 - - the unwise virgins trying to make things right as quickly as possible following the "Midnight Cry" in an effort to qualify for the Rapture of the Bride of Christ.
Also, some of the numbers that keep coming up that MAY OR MAY NOT BE RELATED to this event (assuming it happens as the Web Bot Project predicts) is 2-22 million people affected worldwide!
So, again, here we have the blatant convergence of the pagan and secular with the religious and Christian prophecies of the Holy Bible. What does it mean!?! Can it really be? I think it can!
Of course, let's remind ourselves that just because the Web Bots predict something does not mean God will allow it to happen! Most importantly, we are to trust in Him, and not in man or some man-made technology to predict the future and save us. I hope you all can understand that that's not what I'm getting at here. I'm just reporting on what's out there that has relevance to things we've studied and discussed the past few days.
I mean, come on! What are the odds of this being the case AT THE SAME TIME that we've just wrapped up our Rapture study here!?! Furthermore, the suggested "cause" of these "disappearances" ("extraterrestrials") echoes the EXACT THEORY that we've considered here since day one - - that the so-called "Alien/UFO" phenomenon will be used to explain away the Rapture, and will therefore play a key role in the coming Great Deception. The Web Bot Project even predicts "Alien Wars" with humans as "prize" material, and that "people will not be able to comprehend what has happened. Linguistics indicate a period of immense transformation that might last for 18 months. A "revolution" type scenario is mentioned (there's our echo of the Revolutionary War again!). Again, the Project says it will be "bigger than 9/11." In addition, if true, the fact that this seems to indicate MORE THAN ONE "disappearance" event would certainly give credence to the "Two Raptures" scenario presented in my last column. You can listen to another compelling 60-minute interview from September 2008 HERE.
Look, I'm not sure what to make of all of this. All I know is that I do believe that there's a reason why God will sometimes allow for false prophets and false prophecy as I explained in great detail HERE. Perhaps it's His way of trying to get the attention and send a crystal clear message to the lost souls that frequent those circles (and put more faith in these things than they do in Him) according to His nature that tells us plainly:
2 Peter 3:9 - - "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."
Wishful thinking on my part? I don't think so. I don't think this convergence of the pagan/secular world with our own is an accident. I think it's indicative of how much love the Lord has for all of us, and especially for those who still haven't accepted His free gift of mercy, forgiveness, and salvation. Friends, I don't know about you, but I'm a whirlwind of emotions right now! Yes, I was excited when I wrapped things up in that last commentary, but this is just intense.
The time of our testing may be closer than ever before, but if we pray that we're counted worthy to escape the things that are coming upon this Earth like we're told to in Luke 21:36, then we will "escape" and be preserved and protected right up until the very moment the Tribulation is about to begin, and it will be at that precise moment when we experience the Rapture.
With all the love, sincerity, and hope I strongly urge you to reach out to the Lord God right now. Get yourself right with the One who made you, who loves you, who wants you to choose Him. Don't wait another single second. If this is your first time reading this take comfort knowing that you were not led here by pure chance. He led you here because He is trying to get your attention one last time because all His previous attempts have fallen on deaf ears. Sure, all of this might turn out to be nothing at all. The conclusions made in this piece and the one that preceded it my turn out to be pure speculation, but that still doesn't change the fact that you desperately need God in your life. You need Him because if you die without Him your soul will be lost forever. Forever is a very, very long time. Don't be stubborn. Don't continue to make the same mistake again right now. First things first though. Answer His call and reach out to Him before it's too late!
"Dear Lord, I pray that you will not remember the sins of my youth, nor my transgressions. Please think of me according to Your mercy and for Your goodness' sake, O Lord. Lord I turn from all of those sins that I committed and I ask for Your help in washing the memory and thoughts of that sin completely from my mind. Please restore me to faithful obedience to Your Word, and fill me with Your Holy Spirit anew, so that I may keep Your commands all the days of my life. Lord Jesus, I invite you into my heart anew today, and I ask forgiveness for all of my sin. Jesus, thank you for dying for my sins and for forgiving me of them through your shed blood for me on the cross. Please take away all the sinful 'old things' in my heart that defile me, and replace them with the 'good things' that you desire to grow in to my life. Please wash away all the sinful crud and tendencies toward evil and replace them with a hunger and thirst for your righteousness. I need your help, Lord God, in living this new life in Christ. Please send your Holy Spirit afresh into my life to help me, heal me, lead me and transform me. I also pray that your shed blood washes over me, protects me, and that I am counted worthy to escape the things that are coming upon this world in the form of your righteous judgment. Lastly, I pray that you have mercy on this nation even though we deserve your fierce judgment for our blatant sins that are before you. Help us to see the error in our ways as individuals and as a nation, and lead us to repentance before it's too late for us. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen."
If you haven't repented for your sins or sought the Lord for His mercy, forgiveness, salvation, or prayed that you are counted worthy to escape the things to come as we're instructed to do then please say the following prayer right now:
"Father God, I know I need You because I am a sinner, but also know that I can never get to You on my own. There's nothing I can do on my own to make up for my sins; nothing I could do on my own to earn favor and forgiveness from You or to secure my place in Heaven when I die. The only thing I can do is to make a conscious decision that You sent Your one and only Son Jesus Christ, and that He came to this world for me. He took my sins upon Himself, was crucified in my place, died for me, and was resurrected so that I may live forever. I accept Him and His sacrifice, and desperately want to receive Your Son Jesus Christ as my personal Lord and Savior. When He conquered death for my sake He gave me access to You. Thank You for Your grace and Your mercy. Thank You for forgiving me and for sending the Holy Spirit to transform my life from this moment forward. I pray that You transform my life from this day forward and give me a heart and a mind that desires to not only get to know You, but to be with You as much as possible. Teach me how to live, and teach me how to share this message with others before it's too late for them. Lastly, I pray that I am counted worthy to escape the things that are coming upon this Earth. Amen."
Congratulations! You've just bought yourself the best Life Insurance policy there is!
This is getting awfully surreal! Keep looking up! MARANATHA!!!
RECOMMENDED READING:
The Final Generation Of The Future Judgment
Shocking Web Bot Predictions For 2012


4/20/2009 07:12:00 PM
Jeffrey K Radt ("JRed")
Posted in: 


41 Comments:
We're past the middle of April now....what is "early 2009?"
hello
they are right about one thing it has nothing to do with CHRISTIANS!
because TRUE CHRISTIANS will remain
untill CHRIST is seen coming down from the clouds at the 7th trumpet!
CHRIST have mercy on our souls!!!
john
George and Clif (of the web bots) have both purchased boats. Actually, George already owned one, but has been stocking it up preparing for a massive sea level rise that the bots have predicted.
I'm in the same position you are. Not saying this is correct, just laying the information out there.
They believe that anything at sea level or below will be submerged within the next five months.
Also predicted are mass scale headaches, sleep depravity, and "aberrant sexual behavior"
(As the days of Lot?)
They are not Christians. Clif is actually very new-age.
I have been watching them since 2001. Although I would normally dismiss this sort of thing entirely, they have correctly predicted so many events, I have to at least consider the possibility they may get more things right.
JRed, Thank you for this beautiful prayer of repentace. Even though I accepted the Lord Jesus in 1976, saying this prayer refreshed my soul. Now I am going to check the links. This sounds like an exciting subject. God Bless you and your web blog!
Wow, I just watched the RITA video as well. It seems we are very close to some very very intense weeks ahead.
All, that keeps going through my head is "Jesus is coming back". It seems that is what I'm supposed to be telling people. Please pray for me.
God bless,
Interesting bit of discernment regarding about these web bot nuggets of possibilities...
I need a mid week sabbath rest! Standing firm on a solid Rock till then, by faith.
..it can mean only one thing:
that the dimensions really change.
- but that, soon, in this 'supernatural sphere ' God will protect His 'in..other "places " ( in these dimensions in the atmosphere )than those where Satan has access to.
Interesting, that the NAR 'evangelicals ' are also bragging about "portals " and all that stuff - not different as the NewAgers, but disguised into a christian-like-version..
We're almost due to the Galactic plane crossing, and Jeff it would be worth paying attention to "the tenth star "- because it is NOT a hoax..
It happens every 3600 years ; the last time was when the Exodus occurred ( 1620 b C ), around Passover.. All the ancients tell about the connection with that Star, the watchers, and time/dimensionchanges.. If you can, than please consider a topic about it..?
About the webbot:
IMHO it is very, very dangerous; though it is not perse wrong to take it in attention.
The GlobalConsciousness is what is being played with , by satan , and therefore is being manipulated by him.
If you search "Egregore " it will tell you that they are certain Jungian / NewAge groupconsciousnesses. If you search further, these are the same as "Grigorii " : actual 'beings '. You will find that "Egregore "is the same as " Watcher "-
those, "who fell from heaven "...
kind regards,
Lone
This is no better than divination. Tell me the difference! I understand that you like to look at world events, but I think to put any validity to these web bots is a mistake. Plus, as one of the commentators have said, I hear no trumpet sound. I see no seventh trumpet.
Didn't Enoch know of the flood to come, but was taken away long before it started? Any ideas on this?
Government disclosure coming by the end of May?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTr6PDtgytw&#t=5m25s
I think I am going to stick with the Scripture on this one and just assume that the web bot got it wrong...
I would be interested to know what PERCENTAGE of predictions are right. Anybody can make a few hundred predictions and get a couple right. Any idea of their success rate?
I'm sure there are many other things that this "disappearance" could be other than a rapture. How about a nuke?
Regarding the day of Christ is at hand and our gathering together to him. Take note every word that is said by the Word of God. Ask yourself why the words “troubled” and “deceive” and “spirit” are being used in this warning in 2 Thessalonians 2 versus 1-4 ?
----------------
2 Thessalonians 2 versus 1-4
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
-----------------
PLEASE NOTE in 2 Thessalonians 2 verse 3 says "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;" This says that the Anti-Christ will be revealed first. The Anti-Christ "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God." (2 Thessalonians 2 verse 4) I think it is very important that we note that the Word of God warns us "Let no man deceive you by any means:" (2 Thes 2:3) The Bible warns about a deception. And we know that Satan is the deceiver (whether acting directly or through a man, etc.) What is Satan up to that the Bible is warning us about?
Thanks for the vid link Tabernacle. It is really interesting. I looks as though full disclosure is at hand. Maybe it will come when the people "dissapear."
Greetings Harpazo,
Yes, it is possible that Enoch knew about the flood. In fact, if the following account is true, then you can be sure of it.
The following is from the "Book of Enoch" under the subsection of "The Book of Noah".
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/boe/boe063.htm
Hey Harpazo,
Here's more from the "Book of Enoch"
Excerpted from Chapter 10 of this page:
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/otpseudepig/enoch/
ENOCH_1.HTM
"And the Lord said unto Michael: 'Go, bind Semjaza and his associates who have united themselves with women so as to have defiled themselves 12 with them in all their uncleanness. And when their sons have slain one another, and they have seen the destruction of their beloved ones, bind them fast for seventy generations in the valleys of the earth, till the day of their judgement and of their consummation, till the judgement that is 13 for ever and ever is consummated. In those days they shall be led off to the abyss of fire: and 14 to the torment and the prison in which they shall be confined for ever. And whosoever shall be condemned and destroyed will from thenceforth be bound together with them to the end of all 15 generations. And destroy all the spirits of the reprobate and the children of the Watchers, because 16 they have wronged mankind. Destroy all wrong from the face of the earth and let every evil work come to an end: and let the plant of righteousness and truth appear: and it shall prove a blessing; the works of righteousness and truth' shall be planted in truth and joy for evermore.
17 And then shall all the righteous escape,
And shall live till they beget thousands of children
And all the days of their youth and their old age
Shall they complete in peace.
18 And then shall the whole earth be tilled in righteousness, and shall all be planted with trees and 19 be full of blessing. And all desirable trees shall be planted on it, and they shall plant vines on it: and the vine which they plant thereon shall yield wine in abundance, and as for all the seed which is sown thereon each measure (of it) shall bear a thousand, and each measure of olives shall yield 20 ten presses of oil. And cleanse thou the earth from all oppression, and from all unrighteousness, and from all sin, and from all godlessness: and all the uncleanness that is wrought upon the earth 21 destroy from off the earth. And all the children of men shall become righteous, and all nations 22 shall offer adoration and shall praise Me, and all shall worship Me. And the earth shall be cleansed from all defilement, and from all sin, and from all punishment, and from all torment, and I will never again send (them) upon it from generation to generation and for ever.
Does not appear to be pre-trib taught here either...
More from Enoch, Chapter 25
"1 And he said unto me: 'Enoch, why dost thou ask me regarding the fragrance of the tree, 2 and why dost thou wish to learn the truth?' Then I answered him saying: 'I wish to 3 know about everything, but especially about this tree.' And he answered saying: 'This high mountain which thou hast seen, whose summit is like the throne of God, is His throne, where the Holy Great One, the Lord of Glory, the Eternal King, will sit, when He shall come down to visit 4 the earth with goodness. And as for this fragrant tree no mortal is permitted to touch it till the great judgement, when He shall take vengeance on all and bring (everything) to its consummation 5 for ever. It shall then be given to the righteous and holy. Its fruit shall be for food to the elect: it shall be transplanted to the holy place, to the temple of the Lord, the Eternal King.
6 Then shall they rejoice with joy and be glad,
And into the holy place shall they enter;
And its fragrance shall be in their bones,
And they shall live a long life on earth,
Such as thy fathers lived:
And in their days shall no sorrow or plague
Or torment or calamity touch them.'
7 Then blessed I the God of Glory, the Eternal King, who hath prepared such things for the righteous, and hath created them and promised to give to them."
Book of Enoch, section 2, Chapter 38
"When the congregation of the righteous shall appear,
And sinners shall be judged for their sins,
And shall be driven from the face of the earth:
2 And when the Righteous One shall appear before the eyes of the righteous,
Whose elect works hang upon the Lord of Spirits,
And light shall appear to the righteous and the elect who dwell on the earth,
Where then will be the dwelling of the sinners,
And where the resting-place of those who have denied the Lord of Spirits?
It had been good for them if they had not been born."
Excerpted from:
http://www.ccel.org/c/charles/
otpseudepig/enoch/ENOCH_2.HTM
Notice that the appearance of the congregation of the righteous; the judgment of sinners; and the appearance of the Righteous One before His people - all seem to be happening in about the same timeframe...
The Satanic Verses
In Defense of the Faith
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor
I read recently that the doctrine of a pre-tribulation Rapture is not only unbiblical, it is probably satanic.
I was blessed to have the opportunity to work with Hal Lindsey on his book, "Vanished" in 1997. It was one of the most intense learning experiences of my career -- (and also the most fun I ever had while getting paid for it.)
In order to work on "Vanished" it was incumbent upon me to become an expert in all four views of the Rapture.
Hal's advice was to forget everything I already knew about the Rapture and then study each possible view separately with an eye toward convincing myself that the view I was currently examining was the correct one.
If I couldn't convince myself that it was correct, Hal said, take note of those things that stood in my way. The end result was a book that presented all four possible views as fairly as possible.
My own conclusion was that of the four possible views, the one that had the least conflict with Scripture was the most probable one. And the view most harmonious with the Scripture was the pre-Tribulation Rapture.
The idea that a pre-Trib Rapure is probably satanic in origin demands an examination of the 'origin' of the opposing views.
The post trib perspective is the most widely taught and from that fact, rather than any Scriptural support, draws most of its credibility, in much the same way that arguing 'the pretribulation view is a product of the 1800's" is used to argue against pre-trib.
Protestant Christianity is a product of the Reformation Movement of mid-15th century. Traditional Protestant denominations arose as different Reformers chose different parts of Catholic dogma to reject as being unscriptural.
The Rapture was a problem for the Vatican since it teaches that sinners are only partially washed by the Blood of Christ and have to undergo further purification in Purgatory.
There can be no Rapture. Therefore, there is no real 2nd Coming and no Millennial Kingdom to follow. The Catholic Encyclopedia explains:
"The amillennial view interprets Revelation 20 symbolically and sees the millennium not as an earthly golden age in which the world will be totally Christianized, but as the present period of Christ’s rule in heaven and on the earth through his Church. This was the view of the Protestant Reformers and is still the most common view among traditional Protestants, though not among most of the newer Evangelical and Fundamentalist groups."
New doesn't mean 'wrong' when 'old' refers to the Church during the Dark Ages. They were called the "Dark Ages" because the Bible was repressed by the Vatican. That's what the term refers to -- the period between the fall of Rome and the Reformation.
The Scriptures say that at the 2nd Coming, the Lord returns with ten thousands OF His saints, not FOR them. The origin of the post Trib view doesn't inspire much confidence when compared with the Scriptures.
Paul's 2nd Letter to the Thessalonians addressed a pre-trib Rapture directly.
Chapter 2 begins with a discussion of the coming of the Lord and 'our gathering together unto Him" and then rebukes them for believing the Day of Christ is 'at hand'.
Warning them to "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come" (until certain preparatory events take place) "except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."
First, Paul warns of a great apostasy, out of which a man could credibly claim the title of Messiah. Paul draws the messianic imagery in the next verse:
"Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
Then Paul rebukes them again.
"Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?" (2nd Thessalonians 2:1-5)
Now, let's try a totally different perspective on for size. Read through that chapter and see if you can understand it in some other sense.
What else could "our gathering together unto Him" mean?
What event called "the Day of Christ" being "at hand" could Paul have been referring?
What other 'man of sin' could Paul logically have been referencing, if not the antichrist?
Stay with me, here. There is no gratuitous or unnecessary passage of Scripture. It ALL means something. What else COULD this passage mean? Nobody wants to be wrong about something as important as eternity.
No honest Christian would want to teach a doctrine of satanic origin. And certainly, no Christian would want to learn it.
Is Paul talking about a Rapture event here? Logic and context leave no room for any other interpretation.
Is Paul talking about it in the context of the Tribulation? Clearly. Paul says it has to happen BEFORE the man of sin is revealed.
"And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time."
This verse is NOT that obscure or complicated. The Thessalonians were well aware of the antichrist -- they thought it was Nero. Paul was explaining that Nero can't be the antichrist because if he was, they wouldn't be there.
(Remember, they thought they had been left behind -- that's why Paul was writing to them in the first place.)
Paul is reminding the 1st-century Christians who lived at Thessalonika what is holding back the man of sin until the time is right. ("Sure, Nero could be the antichrist, the world is sinful enough to deserve judgment, but not yet.")
"For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only He who now letteth will let, until He be taken out of the way."
Who is "he"? It can't be referring to the antichrist. The phrase 'let' means 'to occupy' in Old English.
We still use it to some degree today. When one offers a "room to let" it is an offer to occupy a place in an established dwelling.
So, He who now occupies will occupy until He be taken out of the way.
So, Paul says that while there is sin enough for the antichrist to prosper, the time is not right, and it won't be right as long as He who occupies continues to occupy. Is there any possible alternative understanding of that verse's intent or meaning?
Without dancing around the Bible with seemingly contradictory verses aimed at proving something one way or the other, but just at face value, is there ANY other way to interpret just these verses presented?
To continue, after He who occupies is taken out of the way, Paul writes, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."
I always capitalize pronouns that refer to the Lord out of respect -- in this case, I didn't. The translators of the KJV capitalized "Wicked" as a personal pronoun, since there is only one figure in Scripture to whom it can refer -- the literal antichrist who is personally indwelt by Satan during the Tribulation.
Now, the Occupier occupies me. He began His occupation when I trusted Christ. Christ promised me that the Holy Spirit would comfort and guide me until He comes.
Paul says the antichrist cannot be revealed until after the Occupier ceases to occupy.
So teaches me that just when I need the Holy Spirit's strength and comfort the most, He is going to abandon me to face the worst time of spiritual trial the world has ever known on my own.
Or it teaches me that the Rapture must precede the revelation of the antichrist.
Can you read it literally and make it come out differently?
"Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." ( Revelation 3:10)
I am regularly accused of teaching some kind of satanic doctrine that doesn't prepare the Church for the coming tribulation period. Particularly by those who believe we're already in the tribulation and that the antichrist has already been revealed.
They argue that the promise to keep the Church from God's wrath really means God will preserve it through His wrath. So the Church should prepare itself to withstand the coming of the antichrist.
But I can't find anywhere in Scripture that directs me to do that, or anything from Scripture that would teach me how.
The Scriptures only tell me how to come to Christ, how to lead others to Christ, and how to trust in Christ. What it teaches about the Tribulation comes from two perspectives.
The first is the one presented by Paul: "Don't be fooled. When the real thing approaches, here's how you'll know. . . you won't be here."
The Tribulation is unique in human history. In centuries past, there have been persecutions and pogroms against God's people. The pogroms against the Jews was the product of wicked men and the devil conspiring against God's Chosen People.
The persecutions against Christians was the product of wicked men and the devil conspiring against God's Son. In both cases, and down throughout human history, the perpetrators were wicked men and the devil and the targets were the chosen of God.
The Tribulation is the time of God's wrath -- God is the perpetrator of the judgments. The targets are wicked men and the devil.
Jesus said of the Tribulation, "as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth." (Luke 21:35) If it comes upon the whole earth, it means everybody. It rains on the wicked and the righteous alike.
The post-trib argument is the traditional argument, not the Scriptural one. It fails to acknowledge the purpose of the Tribulation Period. The purpose of the Tribulation is the pouring out of God's Wrath upon ALL those that "dwell upon the earth."
"And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth." (Revelation 11:10)
"And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world." (Revelation 13:8)
Four times does the Scripture repeat the phrase, "they that dwell upon the earth." In the first, it is a promise to those who "kept the Word of My patience" (trusted Jesus) that they will be "kept from" God's Wrath.
It is also a statement of purpose. The purpose was "to try them that "dwell upon the earth."
The second and third instances refer to those who will rejoice and make merry at the death of the Two Witnesses. The final reference to those 'that dwell upon the earth' identifies them as those whose names are not written in the Book of Life.
It does not seem that complicated to me. If your name is written in the Book of Life, then you can't be numbered among those who dwell upon the earth when God is pouring out His wrath.
The Church Age has a purpose. It is to present Christ to a lost world and to afford that lost world every opportunity to accept the promise of Pardon secured for them at the Cross. It is to afford each of us the opportunity to be clothed in the righteousness of Christ instead of trusting in our own.
The Tribulation has a purpose. It is to pour out the wrath of God on the earth and to judge it according to its own righteousness. Mix the two and neither has a purpose.
Paul says the antichrist can't be revealed until the Occupier is taken out of the way. I just can't read it any other way.
From the Omega Letter Daily Intelligence Digest, Volume 14, Issue 16
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ for our sins and those of the whole world; for the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us.
Jesus said:
"Oh, what great graces I will grant to souls who say this chaplet (...) Write down these words, My daughter. Speak to the world about My mercy; let all mankind recognize My unfathomable mercy. It is a sign for the end times; after it will come the day of justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fount of My mercy; let them profit from the Blood and Water which gushed forth for them" (Diary, 848) .
"Say unceasingly the chaplet that I have taught you. Whoever will recite it, they will receive great mercy at the hour of death. Priests will recommend it to sinners as their last hope of salvation. Even if there were a sinner most hardened, if he were to recite this chaplet only once, he would receive grace from My infinite mercy" (Diary, 687).
Jesus gave a humble nun, St Faustina this simple prayer to help us in these modern times on Sept 13, 1935.
For your discernment. May God bless you.
Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ for our sins and those of the whole world; for the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on us.
Jesus said:
"Oh, what great graces I will grant to souls who say this chaplet (...) Write down these words, My daughter. Speak to the world about My mercy; let all mankind recognize My unfathomable mercy. It is a sign for the end times; after it will come the day of justice. While there is still time, let them have recourse to the fount of My mercy; let them profit from the Blood and Water which gushed forth for them" (Diary, 848) .
"Say unceasingly the chaplet that I have taught you. Whoever will recite it, they will receive great mercy at the hour of death. Priests will recommend it to sinners as their last hope of salvation. Even if there were a sinner most hardened, if he were to recite this chaplet only once, he would receive grace from My infinite mercy" (Diary, 687).
Jesus gave this humble nun St Faustina this simple prayer to help us in these modern times on Sept 13, 1935.
For your discernment. May God bless you.
Thanks anonymous for that Omega letter article..very thought provoking viewpoint. Thanks unworthy 1 for the Enoch info. I was just commenting that Enoch according to Genesis was raptured before the "tribulation" of the flood.
Hello again Harpazo. I do know what you were getting at - That the bodily translation of Enoch to heaven (several hundred years) before the flood is somehow a picture of the pre-trib rapture. Well, I suppose if you imagine really hard that it could be, but we should try to refrain from forcing things to fit our theory. Also, the flood was a judgment more than a tribulation. A tribulation is a period of trouble, trial and testing. A judgment is God showing up with a big stick. We will be raptured prior to the JUDGMENT of fire. But we will have to endure and survive the TRIBULATION that precedes it. Pray that we escape so we can stand before the Son of Man.
Why are some now saying Enoch is a "type" of the pre-trib rapture?
It doesn't say "As it was in the days of Enoch". It says "As it was in the days of Noah".
Yes, Enoch was taken out, but Noah remained. He was perfectly safe in Christ (the ark).
Someone on the pre-trib side, PLEASE explain this to me:
2 Thess. 2:1 - Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him,
Okay, we know the subject here is "Our gathering together unto him" ie: rapture.
2 Thess. 2:3 - Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Don't be deceived. The gathering will not take place before Antichrist is revealed.
This brings another question. When is it REVEALED that he is antichrist?
At the beginning of the 7 year period? At the mid-point? Later?
I have tried (believe me) I have tried to get "pre-trib" out of the scriptures, but try as I might, I just cannot come up with it.
We desperately need a forum for this type of discussion. If I weren't out of work right now I would set it up.
http://heavenawaits.wordpress.com/when-is-the-appointed-time/
Some interesting info regarding dates...not trying to date set, but interesting stuff.
I think there is always a but if truth even when it is wrapped with lies. It seems to be how Satan works from the garden until now.
2Th 2:1 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him (The rapture)
2Th 2:2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. (The day of the Lord)
2Th 2:3 Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (the Day of the Lord) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
There are plenty of solid pre-trib perspectives on these verses for those willing to search them out. I've already provided links in the past. It's not a problem for pre-trib, however, the debate will go on until the Lord comes.
Maranatha
Hello Tabernacle,
I want to be clear that I was in no way trying to make Enoch a 'type' of pretrib rapture. Just pointing out that God has in the past translated people before judgement,tribulation whatever you want to call it, no theory. Also, the same exact verses you quoted here to make your point are used in an earlier comment on this post by someone else to prove pre-trib (see post by anonymous
The Satanic Verses
In Defense of the Faith
Tuesday, April 21, 2009
Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor ) So we cannot all be right. I do think we all see what we want to see, only in the end will we know for sure...Peace:)
It was clever of you anonymous to break up the sentence like that into verses, but lets read the sentence as it was written and see what it really says without the assumptions you inserted...
2Th 2:1-2 Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit or a message or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come.
Paul directly links the "Day of the Lord" with "our gathering together to Him" at His "coming".
All the same subject. He is not speaking of two separate events 7 (or even 3 1/2) years apart.
If you twist the Scriptures too hard, you might break them...
jred
I know you are busy, but if you get a chance check this out. lucifer may already be here!!!!!!
http://illuminatichronicles.wordpress.com/2009/01/09/luciferians-attempt-take-over-of-leo-zagamis-organization-1of2/
john
http://www.ronrhodes.org/ -good site.
http://home.earthlink.net/~ronrhodes/PostTribProblems.html
Some more on 2 Thess.2/1-5... lets look at the word translated apostacy or falling away.this is a sudden quick thing, not something that happens over a long period of time ,else it wouldnt be a good sign post for an event . 2nd, this word is used in Mark 10/4,Matt19/7 Matt 5/31 Acts 21/21, 2Thess2/3 the word is used as divorcement 3 times, departure once, and falling away in the last .So why not have it make sense and read, Day of the Lord or day of wrath will not come untill these 3 things happen first. . Remember I told them to you before. One: the separation or divorce or departure takes place, a putting away of the church into the trib. two:Antichrist is revealed. three: He sets himself up in the temple as God , Rev3/16-17 as opposed to 3/10 Even the Lords prayer model , deliver us from tribulation and from the evil one , do not bring us into[eisphero]it means to bring into,or lead into. God would never lead or bring us into sin, but He would bring the main harvest into trib. as shown Rev 3/16 , to mature them. He gives them into hands of antichrist for a short time, but some will [not have to] be given over Rev3/10 or Luke 21/36 or wise vs foolish virgins Matt25
Acts 21:21 - "And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise [their] children, neither to walk after the customs."
2 Thessalonians 2:3 - "Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"
Above are the two verses in the New Testament that use the Greek word "apostasia", which is translated (according to Blueletterbible.com) as "a falling away, defection, apostasy". All three of these words carry the same basic meaning. The word in the first verse above was translated "forsake" which also carries similar meaning, but let's plug in "to defect from Moses". That is what the word means. The day of the Lord (which is in conjunction with the coming of the Lord) will not come until "the defection". There is nothing here to suggest that this event is immediate. It mearly implicates that there will be a group that abandons what they used to embrace - as in "teaching the Jews...to forsake Moses". In these last days, many will forsake Jesus. They will break their covenant, just as someone who divorces his wife breaks that covenant. That is the word used in the other verses you supplied. It is not the same word, but is the root word of the one used for "apostasy". It is the Greek word "apostasion", and it is translated "divorcement". What is divorcement? It is a separating of two that were once one, is it not? Also, the word "apostasion" comes from the root word "aphistemi". Here is the translation of that word from blueletterbible.com:
1) to make stand off, cause to withdraw, to remove
a) to excite to revolt
2) to stand off, to stand aloof
a) to go away, to depart from anyone
b) to desert, withdraw from one
c) to fall away, become faithless
d) to shun, flee from
e) to cease to vex one
f) to withdraw one's self from, to fall away
g) to keep one's self from, absent one's self from
So, anonymous, you have misunderstood/misrepresented what is meant here in the Scripture. You have inserted into the meaning that it is a "sudden, quick thing" because that is what your preunderstanding dictates that you have to believe about it. You have also taken two Greek words and said that they are the same word when they are not.
Also, the Lord's prayer was not given in the context of the 7 years of Tribulation. It was given for all believers for all times. And the verse is "lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." Tribulation is not in the verse, though I will admit that the word used for temptation can mean "a trial, testing, etc." But that does not presume that God will not test us. In fact, the very people (the disciples) that He told to pray the prayer went through some very nasty trials and suffered horrible martyrs deaths.
As for the statement that "some will not have to be given over" - the 10 virgins is a poor choice for an example.
Matthew 25:11-12 - "Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."
These five virgins are rejected by the Lord. They are shut out. Can you show anywhere in the Scriptures where they are later allowed in? I can not.
If Revelation 3:10 has a reference to the Tribulation period (and it probably does), it does not necessarily demand a pre-trib rapture, as there are a multitude of ways that the Lord could keep some people from the hour of temptation without a rapture. Now, if the pre-trib rapture were taught clearly by Scripture, a pre-trib rapture here would be a good assumption. However, I have shown that a pre-trib rapture is not what the Scripture (as a whole) teaches, therefore, this verse is not teaching one, so we should not insert it into the text.
The same thing is true with Luke 21:36. There is a pre-assumption that the pre-trib rapture is fact. Therefore, this verse does appear to teach that some might "escape" before all this starts. However, since the Scriptural evidence when taken as a whole does not seem to teach a pre-trib rapture, we need to ask ourselves if this verse can make sense with the mid or post-trib positions, and it does as there are other ways we can "escape" or "flee" without a rapture.
Hello Christian Cowboy.
Unfortunately, I can not access the study about the problems with the post-trib view, but if you will go there and post one objection or point he makes at a time, I will address them and show where Mr. Rhodes errs (if possible).
Peace
Apollyon 2012- Scroll down on this site to the article by T. Horn.http://www.brucedcollins.blogspot.com/
to unworthy1 ,everyone ok here goes first off let me say I dont wish to create any bad blood, but will respond to show how far you need to go to dismiss scripture, throw out plain and simple understanding , if you must create none harmony with scriptures then your making stuff fit where it doesnt belong. God wouldnt put profiles, types,and a drawing of parallels for us to see. What would you have us do with these pretend they are not there? To some direct points then I will show you an example. Rev 3/10 the word [keep [[you from]] means out from or out of something not help you through somthing On the 2 Thess. three times it does mean divorcement which means a complete separation american heritage dictionary. departure in one and falling away in one , so out of the five the worst one is used any of the other times would make way more sense. Now to some profiles ... Elijah is taken up. elishiah tore his clothes right away a sign of repentance and had a double portion of the HS to go and work.. the rapture of Elijah moved Elishiah in such a way ,remember he did not want to talk about the comming rapture of Elijah. But now can go and do great signs and carry out great exploits. how about Lazarus BEFORE YOU READ ANY MORE READ IT IN John11/1-46....
ok now lets hve some fun with scripture God is so awesome J11/1 follow along with your bibles 11/1,2 Isreal is sick and dies Christ is in heaven when the finishings of Diaspora take place.
11/3-4 Church prayes for the restoration /salvation of Israel Christ promises Isreal will be restored.
11/5 first shallbe last last /first A reversal in resurrection and in levels of the kingdom now its Firstfruits Main harvest/ left behind then Isreal.
11/7-8 Christ will come back to earth and Israel after 2000 yrs. Isreal tried to kill Him and did the first time.
11/9-10 Jews blinded to His Identity at first but will seeor recognize Him the second time
11/11-14 Christ explains spiritual death resurrection of Israel
11/15 Israel being set aside results in salvation for gentils who are grafted into church
11/16 The two witnesses during later half of trib die
Israel has been spiritualy dead 4000 since they perished in the wilderness under Moses
11/18-19 Judaism and the church are close now, many jews are becoming believers , mesianic jews
11/20 firstfruits rapture happens those who were ready, watching are taken but the main body main harvest remain here on earth in household of faith
11/21-22 firstfruits are in heaven with Christ ,they discuss spiritual death /resurrection of Israel
11/23-24 Christ confirms to the firstfruit harvest the up coming restoration of Israel
11/25-26 He also confirms to them the coming great multitude main harvest rapture
11/27-28 the firstfruits confirm their belief in the second coming to take out the main left behind harvest they even come with Him to get them
11/29 the rapture mian harvest takes place quickly
11/30 now they with the firstfruits are in heaven this is the mid trib pre wrath spoken by Paul in 2 Thess.
11/31 the 144 thous.firstfruit [of Israel] were close to main harvest church in withstanding what is going on on the earth. saved in first part of trib or believe whats going on and are not deceived . they are sealed for protection in second half trib.
11/32 Mian harvest understands Christs saving power but dont fully understand the Word of the Kingdom Israel is part of the restoration earthly side in the mill.
11/33-34 Christ sees the mian harvest and 144 thous. weeping over Israel. He asks where Israel is because she's been hiding 1260 days Rev12/6 Dan 12/1
11/35-37 144 thous. are surprised at the love Christ showed for Israel they understand the saving power of Him and are about to see it by Israels restoration
11/38 Christ returns to earth in power and glory to save Israel and restore the earthly kingdom to them.
11/39 the blindness of Israel will be removed the bride firstfruits says Israel has been spiritualy dead for 4000 yrs
11/40 Christ rewards the faithfullness of the bride for her mature faith in the coming kingdom of Christ she experiences the glory of Christ
11/41 the blindness of Israel is now removed
11/42 Christ will ues the regeneration of Israel to move gentile nations to Himself
11/43-44 Israel is spiritualy regenerated her sins are atoned for as christ comes in power and glory 11/45-46 A remnant of the jews are saved
now these are just two ,, one in overview and one in detail there are more , no way God did this by mistake patterns are consistant of who did what according to who they are again no way thats not there by direct purpose. Ruth is a good one rebekah is also a good one
one must deny scripture and break up the harmony of it to say otherwise ,,no way around it .
thanks for the link, Cowboy. I always felt thet Horn is more balanced as for example Marzulli - the latter doesn t believe, though he has good insights.
Marzulli is also more on line with Newton; though few know that Newton was ( though outwardly 'christian ' )connected deeply with the okkult -
he had the most extensive okkult library in europe, at that time.
Still,
I m not sure what is Jeffs stand in this;
but "appolyon " is,,as I learned, indeed satan, but in connection with a physical entity: Nemesis ( or Niburu )
Iknow how much desinformation s beeing spread. But Henoch names "a star, who refuses to go it s appointed course ';
Jeremiah names "the Destroyer comes from the South "( and that is not related to 'the Assyrian ', elsewhere; and indeed Niburu approaches Earth from 'the south ';
etc etc
again thnx for the link
Lone
We will not know the time or the place. Not even Jesus knew the time, only the Father.
I wonder, will prophesy groups like this publish formal disclaimers when nothing happens in 2009?
Anonymous, you have not done a very good job of making your case. You adduce that John 11 is teaching a (I assume) pre-trib rapture. However, one must first have the preunderstanding that the bible teaches a pre-trib rapture to come up with that interpretation. In other words, you made up the story based on what you already thought to be true. That is the wrong way to view Scripture. First, you must PROVE that the Scripture teaches the doctrine without any hocus pocus. If the doctrine is clear through a plain reading of the Scripture, THEN perhaps you can move on to such "spiritual" interpretations and foreshadowing and hidden meanings.
You are seeing what you want to see.
This is interestingly related to the Web Bot idea that technology can predict the future.
I can see it now. It will be just like in the movie "Tribulation" where the anti-christ desires to get everyone "on the same page". If everyone will just think toward the same goal, we can make it happen. We can manipulate our future. Tranmission meditation. If you can dream it you can have it... This could well be where we're heading, and harnessing the "global consiousness" could play a part. Those who don't "play along" would be a hinderance to the "grand plan" and the progress of humanity.
could be...
[It's still legal - and always God-honoring - to air messages like the following. (See Ezekiel 3:18-19.) In light of government backing of raunchy behavior (such offenders were even executed in early America!), maybe the separation we really need is the "separation of raunch and state"!]
In Luke 17 in the New Testament, Jesus said that one of the big "signs" that will happen shortly before His return to earth as Judge will be a repeat of the "days of Lot" (see Genesis 19 for details). So gays are actually helping to fulfill this same worldwide "sign" (and making the Bible even more believable!) and thus hurrying up the return of the Judge! They are accomplishing what many preachers haven't accomplished! Gays couldn't have accomplished this by just coming out of closets into bedrooms. Instead, they invented new architecture - you know, closets opening on to Main Streets where little kids would be able to watch naked men having sex with each other at festivals in places like San Francisco (where their underground saint - San Andreas - may soon get a big jolt out of what's going on over his head!). Thanks, gays, for figuring out how to bring back our resurrected Saviour even quicker!
God is NOT an insurance policy
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