The Case For Three Raptures (Part 6)

Posted by Jeffrey K Radt ("JRed") | Posted in , , , | Posted on Friday, July 10, 2009

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This will be the final entry in this "The Case For Three Raptures" series. Before I conclude the series with this column I think I should probably make a few key statements:

> This is not a Salvation issue. This is solely a study about the Rapture. Two different things.
> Just because this is what I believe doesn't mean that you have to believe it too.
> What does any Rapture study matter to those of you who say I'm wrong? If I'm wrong so what?
> What's my crime? Encouraging holiness as this theory is based upon? How is that a bad thing?

Let me put this out there for consideration. Most of the readership here believes in the so-called "Alien/UFO" phenomenon being intricately linked to end times events as a "demonic" phenomenon in actuality, and yet there's FAR LESS PROOF to support that position in the Holy Bible when compared to the ABUNDANCE OF EVIDENCE to support this 3 Rapture position within the same holy Book. Isn't there a problem with that? I could even point to the countless hours I spent writing about Synchronicity and Synchro-Pop. No objections whatsoever there, but the minute I write about things found in the Bible that would actually challenge and motivate us to be better the floodgates open. Isn't that quite telling? Why can't we at least consider the possibility that there's some merit to this? Why are we so quick to oppose it without closer scrutiny especially if it's predicated on something good -- something like examining ourselves daily to make sure we're moving towards greater holiness?

I completely understand the feeling that most of you are having because I had it too when I began this study a couple of months ago. I actually set out to DISPROVE THIS THEORY when I first learned about it, but it would be intellectually dishonest of me to report back and say that I've been able to do that when, in fact, it changed my entire perspective on the entire Rapture debate, and actually put my mind and soul at peace and rest because it makes sense. How does it do that? In a nutshell, because it combines 3 of the 5 most popular perspectives on the Rapture into this single theory and says that there's a reason for all the confusion.

I'm still amazed by the nature and phenomenon of this debate, or for any Rapture discussion for that matter. Why does the Rapture cause so much anger, division, and hostility within the Body of Christ? It's a serious question. Can anyone provide me with an honest answer?

Could it be that this is precisely what Satan wants? He doesn't want us to know the real truth of the matter because he knows if we did we'd immediately have to change some things in our lives and aggressively pursue greater repentance and holiness so he blinds us into thinking that there's absolutely no way that this could be true.

You'd think I was promoting some kind of heresy or something. According to some emails I've received, you'd think I was questioning the Virgin Birth, the deity of Jesus Christ, His work on the cross, the Gospel of Salvation, and/or His Resurrection. My gosh, this isn't a Salvation issue at all let alone me trying to alter a fundamental tenet of our shared Christian faith so why the fierce responses? I know I'll get verbally stoned for this, but I propose that the fierce reaction is due to the fact that perhaps this has struck a nerve somewhere, or perhaps it's causing people to recoil a bit because they know that if true, then they have a lot of work to do.

Now, surely, at this point some will undoubtedly say, "See! I knew it! This is a works-based theology!" To which I'd reply, "Yes! Yes it is! What's your point?"

Again, WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT SALVATION so that argument is useless here. We're talking about evidence -- fruit -- of the Christian lifestyle. Remember James please!

James 2:20 -- "But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" (emphasis mine)

All I've done was ask the question: "Why is there such a disparity between believers let alone evidence for multiple perspectives regarding the timing of the Rapture?". This book by Ty Lamb -- for me -- was the first source (backed up by the Holy Bible of course) to answer that question and I wanted to write about it and share my findings with all of you.

As expected, this week's work on the "3 Raptures Theory" has caused quite a stir and generated some heated responses. So, I feel a gentle rebuttal of sorts is in order here.



Please allow me a moment to issue a reminder about my approach here in this forum. You'll find this on the left hand side of the page in the "Our Purpose" section:


Also, one important note about our approach here that I would like to mention. I believe it is a common, but very serious MISTAKE, for us to think that just because we may disagree on some points when it comes to interpreting the Bible and its prophecies, that another Brother or Sister in Christ Jesus, in the Body of Christ (in their perceived "error"), cannot ADD MANY OTHER IMPORTANT NUGGETS OF TRUTH that will ultimately help us in growing in grace and knowledge of our God and His big picture regarding what is happening all around us, and what will happen in the very near future.

Besides, we know from Proverbs 25:2 that "It is the glory of God to conceal a matter..." Christians are supposed to be lovers of truth, and I'm hoping we can all consider that our current interpretations of prophecy may be slightly incorrect since we know that 1 Corinthians 13 tells us we see "through a glass, darkly" and that God told Daniel in Daniel 12:4, "But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

We put these news items, commentaries, interviews, research, theories, and information here as a public service, and in an effort to bring glory to God. It is up to you to seek the Lord and pray, while using the Holy Bible as your guideline. We do not, and we never will, suggest that anyone should seek man for the answers. We must take all things to, and seek and rely on the Lord because we are warned to watch, pray, and not be deceived in Matthew 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, 2 Thessalonians 2, and elsewhere.


Since day one, this has been -- and always will be -- my approach here.

Yes, this website is about bringing glory and honor to God at all times by attempting to prove on a consistent basis that He is real, His Word as found in the Holy Bible is accurate and can be trusted, that end times prophecy is being fulfilled all around us, and that the beginning of Daniel's 70th Week (Tribulation/Great Tribulation) is closer than ever before. How does this particular study and assertion do anything but support all of that?

At the same time, it's also about documenting for posterity my own personal spiritual journey. I'm merely a babe in Christ, and so I try to write about all the things that are unique to my own personal experience in getting to know our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Sometimes that means writing about the "difficult" or "hard" questions and concerns I have about certain things. Most times, I find that these are the same feelings and thoughts that many of you have had at one time or another, but maybe were afraid to pursue and tackle because of the fear of what you might find. Shaking one's entrenched position on any subject let alone a religious one is something that most people shy away from. It's human nature. That's fine. I'm not here to judge, but please don't criticize me for attempting to be as transparent about my studies in pursuit of God and His truth.

You certainly don't have to agree with everything (or anything) I write about here and I would never recommend that you do before looking into them yourself and taking them under prayerful consideration to God. But at least look into them honestly and seriously before you decide to simply attack and blast me.

Again, I'm still amazed by the nature and phenomenon of this debate. Why does the Rapture cause so much anger, division, and hostility within the Body of Christ? You'd think I was promoting some kind of heresy or something like trying to change someone's views about Jesus Christ or the doctrine of Salvation. My gosh, this isn't a Salvation issue let alone me trying to alter a fundamental tenet of our shared Christian faith so why the fierce responses?

By reading that 400+ page book by Ty Lamb over the course of the past several weeks in my spare time, and now writing about it on my website, I hope that it is evident that I am looking for truth and not just the things I "already agree with" (or those things that only "confirm and support my pre-established position") as some have suggested.

Look, I'll be the first to admit that I struggled with this idea at first too! To give any other impression would be completely dishonest of me. I began this study with the sole intent of debunking it. However, the more I read and the more Biblical proof I saw, the more I began to believe it.

Now, does that mean that this is the "final answer" to the entire debate? Of course not! We should never become too rigid or dogmatic in our understanding of the things of God because who are we to have such wisdom? Still, while it may not be the "final answer" it has -- for me -- brought me that much closer to what I believe the final answer to be because this "theory" has an abundance of evidence from the Bible to back it up, and it makes the most sense to me out of any of the other commonly held views. I'm sorry, it does.

Writing these pieces on this subject this week is my attempt to provide the truth as best as I can to my readers, but at the end of the day it's really up to each one of you to decide on your own and for yourself whether or not it's to be believed as it's presented. I do believe it should.

Thank you to those who reminded me that "The Lord is not glorified by the latest 'what about this?' possibility" and that "Truth is VERY important to Him" because I couldn't agree with you all more as evidenced by the other day's post titled "Say Goodbye To Synchro-Pop?".

Yet, I have to ask in all sincerity, where were you, my fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ, who were so concerned about "The Lord is not glorified by the latest 'what about this?' possibility" and that "Truth is VERY important to Him" when I dived head first into the occult and Synchronicity/Synchro-Pop? Isn't that what any study of Synchronicity and Synchro-Pop was all about? Personally, I'd think that my writings about such things should have prompted this same kind of response don't you? So, why is it that all that time I never received a single message from some of you in a similar spirit, and yet now when I write about the Rapture (a non-occult, non-satanic subject), that's the specific moment that you choose to come at me with these charges and "reminders"? Just another one of the thoughts on my mind today.

With all due respect, for someone anyone who encourages others to take the necessary time to research and consider a point of view before dismissing it outright, I'm completely baffled by how those same people can make such a claim without even looking into to this subject first themselves in an honest effort to either approve or disprove it. Read the book. Examine the evidence. Then make a final analysis.

My friends, what the author suggests is that the various perspectives on the Rapture are all legit because there's supposed to be multiple Rapture events, and that's why we find hard evidence to support each one in the Bible.

The Biblical evidence to support such a "theory" is sound and it's all there. Hopefully, I've done a good enough job in these columns to whet your appetite a bit because I would think it would be exactly the type of study that the Look Up Fellowship community of believers would be interested in to no end.

In the end, I'm only trying to report on the things that I've experienced that make sense to me in my relationship with God, His Son Jesus Christ, and His Word as found in the Holy Bible. I can do nothing more, or nothing less.

Thanks for you time, consideration, and thoughtful responses.

Comments Posted (12)

Now why you sart bitin' back at ús, dear Jeff..?

"if the reactions are like this, because it hits a nerve "..? No; because You have a very serious club of friends, who do not need to get 'whipped' before they are serious about ( whatever )theme or truth concerning Faith

And considering the remark about synchro-pop: first, it is yóur blog ; second, it was good to learn how to discover synchronity ( because basically that is Symbolism: the recognizing of events in front of you, according to what is in your spirit ),
but it aint true that "nobody said something " - than remember the time, mr Adachi responded.

You seem to forget, that this is an interactive blog ( and I don t mean the WRITTEN responses !!) ,
therefore, He will turn our fokus to exactly thóse topics, He likes to be shared..:)

- but these things always take some time.

And about this rapture: maybe, a lot of us féel deepdown, that something is wrong, but we all do not have Light enough,yet, to can solidly argue against it.
But you can t say, we are not seriously listening: look at the comments!
I believe instead, that we should work to and wait for a..'complete indwelling ' ( which is supernatural, as well ! ) ,
what seems to be more congruent than this whole Rapture idea. But He will tell, which one - I m sure :)

Please continue, Jeff.

Lone

- that being said,
how about Troy..? You had contact with him about how he s doing..?

Lone

JRed, those whose hearts are still hardened even though they call themselves christians, are more than likely going to be the ones who don't get raptured. At least not at first. I think it makes complete sense and I've studied this subject for 20 plus years. I've almost allowed myself to wonder if the 3 raptures were a possibility during that time. Now I understand. Thanks. You've done no harm as far as I'm concerned and if anyone has issue with you or this theory, then let them ask themselves where their heart is!

Let me put this out there for consideration. Most of the readership here believes in the so-called "Alien/UFO" phenomenon being intricately linked to end times events as a "demonic" phenomenon in actuality, and yet there's FAR LESS PROOF to support that position in the Holy Bible when compared to the ABUNDANCE OF EVIDENCE to support this 3 Rapture position within the same holy Book.

The above statement is based upon your view of those scriptures. It is an esogesis of the scriptures, and not exegesis of the scriptures. If you want to go over where the concept is flawed, we can.

Why does the Rapture cause so much anger, division, and hostility within the Body of Christ?

I think it causes frustration as opposed to anger. You can show people the definition of the catching away, and they see what they want. You show them where in the bible the rapture occurs, and they act as if it is not there. It gets frustrating. You see people twisting the scriptures to fit their own view, and they skip hundreds of scriptures that are contrary to their view. I do not think it is done on purpose, but one must have eyes to see and ears to hear.

Jeff – You may need to take a step back.

If this was my first time visiting this site I don’t think I would visit it again after reading this posting. You have just lashed out to everyone reading this issue. I’m not saying you did this to harm anyone but then again I think you did. If I had not known you so well I would leave this posting feeling “Man this is one angry person”, this attack upon your readers merits a moment of true review.

We I mean WE YOUR FRIENDS are not judging you for your beliefs. We are not children that need to be smacked because we question your point of view. You need to be kind and understanding for we are slow to learn new things. Ok now that you see where I’m coming from I suggest that you take the time and reread your own posting here and look at it from the readers point of view.

This is not like you.
You don’t need to lash out at anyone.
You are only harming your own image.
Please step back and smell the roses.

I think you are on to something. I can see scriptural arguments for pre/mid and pre-wrath raptures. I see the strongest support for pre-trib but continue to keep an open mind. One question though - wouldn't it be critically important for the Lord to make it clear that there will be multiple raptures? Imagine you, a saved Christian who has the Spirit, observes a rapture but you are left behind? Wouldn't you question your salvation afterwards? Wouldn't despair for the future thinking you'll suffer the rest of the tribulation? I would think out of mercy the scripture would have been clearer.

Guess I posted this in the wrong place the first time...

For anyone out there who desires, here is something that is not the newest idea or latest theory on the rapture. Both these sites teach what has been taught since the days of the apostles and early church. Excellent reads for those who appreciate solid biblical teaching.

http://www.biblestudying.net/rev-chron1.html

http://www.answersinrevelation.org/

Salvation and the rapture are not two different issues in my mind, one directly correlates to the other. Salvation is a process of grace in our lives and we are sanctified during this life which is also a process of grace and the ressurection/rapture is the fulfillment of that process and promise, that "It is finished". If during the tribulation some christians are raptured and others are not due to needing more "refinement", then that is based on works and some being holier than others. When the Lord comes, the only ones that won't go in the rapture are those that are not His period. If they have never truly received Him, they will be left behind during the tribulation and they may indeed go through refinement and hopefully be able to receive Him during that terrible time by the preaching of the gospel by the 144,000 and those that they help to conversion. These will have to live through the tribulation and will see the Lord's bodily return to set up his Kingdom. But those that are true believers now, will go when He comes for us in the rapture, I believe before the tribulation. However, even if it is not before the tribulation, but sometime during, those of us who are true believers will be taken up along with the saints that have died and come out of their graves when He calls us. Not some now, some later and some later than that. That would be works based and the scriptures don't uphold that teaching.

Maybe if we all read the whole book...and not the snippets you have here...it might make a difference too.....I do realise you don't say "all" but you say "most" when saying something about those who do not agree....I can't always get the books here in Australia, I have tried, not available here...so that would not help either

yaddy

As a student of prophecy for many years I am still not absolutely certain of the order of events...nor is anyone else.

I do think it is wise to begin with the early church fathers and the preeminent prophecy students right down through the ages to today. The Pre-Trib position seems to be the position that has come from the most ardent scholars of prophecy. In 2009 there is general agreement among them, although not total agreement.

With just a cursory examination of the Isaiah 18 position one can see a great lack of understanding among those who hold that this is the United States. With regard to the 3-rapture theory theologians can barely agree on a general position with one Rapture, let alone three. I think in this day we have many fairly new Christians leaping into the prophecy arena without sufficient background.

As always, I think it is important to proceed with caution, especially when deviating too far from the hard-won prevailing views of the best theologians...who are in general agreement after a lifetime of study in most cases.

Emotions are running high these days, so this is a time to pray that we be counted worthy, to seek to spread the Good News as fervently as possible, and to maintain a watchful, patient position of faith.

In all of scriptural history not one of God's prophets has understood a prophecy with 100% accuracy. We will not be the exception. We need to remain humble and wait on the Lord.

Greetings in Yeshua!

A google search today led me to this forum. I praise God for the hearty discussion. What I have witnessed here is a brother in Christ, Jeff, whom I have never met come under considerable heat for defending a solidly biblical view of the rapture. Jeff, thank you for your efforts to defend this position despite the conflict. May the Lord bless you for the fiery strife it has caused you.
Given the 6 part discussion concerning the subject of three raptures and the bold defense Jeff provides in this part,it would be rather daunting of me to offer myself to you for any further inquiry on the subject. May I take this burden from Jeff's shoulders as you turn to the source. You see, I am the author of this book. So, hence forth, should the Lord lead you, please direct your concerns and comments to me, the source of this particular controversy. (ty@threeraptures.com) Perhaps by the Lord's grace and mercy I will be given the wisdom to answer your questions.
It is without question a controversial subject matter. It is without question there are many Bible students and scholars out there that have been studying the subject far longer than me. I cannot give an adequate answer as to why this burden was assigned to me. Perhaps He knew I would be willing... At first it was a pet project of mine never intended to be published. Consider the boldness that was required to put this study into print. Was it foolish arrogance on my part? Or was it my humble submission to God to do what He commanded me to do despite the obvious confrontations that would come? Consider the deep inner contemplation I must have wrestled with. "Am I a false teacher promoting doctrine of demons or am I simply a conduit directed by the Holy Spirit to illuminate this area of truth to the Church in this late hour? Is this the hand of God to dispel confusion and bring clarity? The most important thing was to get "me" out of the way. I encourage you to do the same. As I was walking into the UPS Store to mail the transcript to the publisher I saw a garbage dumpster nearby. I walked over to it holding the envelope over the dumpster and prayed: "Lord, if this is not of You, I will gladly dispose of it right here and now." I immediately received a wrenching ache in the pit of my stomach and these unforgettable, unexpected words were spoken loudly in my spirit, "Is this how you treat the word of God?" In fear of the Lord I quickly retracted the envelope to my chest and these words were spoken "Send it!"
This account is not given to you as a failproof signet seal from God, nor am I defending the book in some way. I humbly ask you to give considerable prayer to this. Give Jeff some credit that he is open, teachable and searching rather than as the Sanhedrin who crucify without sufficient cause. If you haven't read the book, please do so. Then, once again, the invitation to email me is open.
If you don't want to spend the money on the book go to google books and search "Three Raptures." There you can read a fair amount of the book online. If you are a pastor/Bible teacher, email me your request for a free pdf of the manuscript. If you would like me to personally present this theory to your congregation, again, please email me.
May the Lord continue to bless His Church stirring us to watch our doctrine closely; to be ready to give an answer for the reasons for the hope we have with gentleness and respect; to throw off everything that hinders and finish the race marked out for us! As Jesus is in us, We are the light of the World!

Blessings,
ty