6/28/2010 07:21:00 PM
Jeffrey K Radt ("JRed")
Last year, we had an extremely odd series of "broken" bones in the news. Several cases of broken right wrists or broken right ankles (if my memory serves me correctly) involving some pretty high-profile world leaders.
The symbolism at the time was striking given all that was going on in the world that was prophetically relevant. We tried to document those cases HERE and even offered up some analysis. Incredibly, that post was written in July 2009, or almost a full year ago.
A year later, it's seems like "fainting" is all the rage now. Of course, that reminds me of this prophetic verse...
The word "faint" occurs 41 times in 41 verses in the King James Version (KJV) of the Holy Bible. See if you notice anything "curious" about the passaged where this word shows up. I also recommend doing a Strong's Concordance study on the world too. So much from seemingly so little! Praise the Lord!
The message is obvious, right? If not, I think that those who still don't "get it" are the ones who won't get it until it's on their doorstep and staring them in the face becoming all too real, too fast to even allow them to catch their breath. So be it! We've had more than enough time to spiritually prepare for the inevitable.
Within the past 2 weeks alone, we've seen two high-profile "fainting spells" caught on camera in very public settings. One involving a decorated military General. One involving an award winning CEO who's a leader of capitalism and industry.
The first occurred 2 weeks ago on June 15th involving General Patraeus who fainted while being questioned by Senator McCain about the progress in Afghanistan. The words that McCain uttered just before Petraeus fainted?
General Patraeus Faints While Being Questioned By Senator McCain
Looking at McCain's words JUST BEFORE THE GENERAL FAINTED from a SPIRITUAL PERSPECTIVE, is anyone else struck by how symbolic that language is if we were to rip them out of context and simply view them as our Heavenly Father, or the Holy Spirit, speaking directly to each and every one of us (but especially to the non-believers and false converts) on the eve of the Tribulation? I'm struck by them.
The words "whether we're actually going to stay or not" force me to think of the coming "escape" mentioned in Luke 21:36 (whether it's a literal Rapture event or not). Are we praying to escape the things to come just like Jesus commands us to in this verse?
The words "whether we're going to do what's necessary to succeed" force me to think about the process of sanctification. Are we allowing the Holy Spirit to sanctify us, or is Jesus Christ just our Savior, but not our Lord?
The words "rather than set an arbitrary timeline" force me to think about date-setting, or those who wrongly assume they have all the time in the world to "get right with God" in this life. Are we guilty of date-setting, and have we come to our senses are recognized our need for the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ today?
Fast forward to the present. Earlier today, the General Electric CEO Jim Campbell passed out and fell off the stage he was sitting on. The words that Vice President Biden uttered just before Campbell fainted?
GE Appliance Division Head Collapses During Biden Speech
Biden's closing remarks? Yes, he actually continued with his closing remarks as if nothing happened.
The audacity! First, he talks about how the company that doesn't innovate will ultimately stagnate, and I hear that and think about how it's the company/CEO/nation/group/individual that doesn't rely on God for all things -- rather than their own mere human agency -- that will ultimately stagnate and die. Then, I hear his closing comments to "keep the faith" and want to scream "HYPOCRITE!!!" at him!
And people say that God isn't intimately involved in our daily lives. But what (if anything) is being "communicated" here through the symbolism? I have a suspicion I want to share.
Well, if we look at what Gibby62 wrote last year in response to the broken RIGHT Ankle, Elbow, and Wrist stories...
So, in a sense, a "Great Separation" was occurring (has already occurred). Now, perhaps the message is to MAINTAIN that separation -- to stick to the command to "Come out of her, my people" -- by pursuing holiness and by allowing the Holy Spirit to carry out His sanctifying work in your life.
I don't know, I could be WAY OFF BASE with that one and it could just be me trying to force that interpretation. After all, the past couple weeks I've been driven to pursue holiness more so than ever before. Yes, we all sense that Divine Judgment/Divine Retribution is at hand. If so, doesn't that mean that no more than ever we need to keep His Word close and His Son even closer?
In fact, I’ve been convicted by our need -- my need -- to pursue holiness even more than I do right now. Getting saved, being born again, isn’t a finish line – it’s a starting gun! Why don’t we view it as such though? I submit to you that it’s because we don’t truly respect and value the Word of God like we should, or like we say we do.
How can those who claim to be lovers of Christ, lovers of His Holy Word, not now what the text plainly says about living the Christian lifestyle and allowing the Holy Spirit to perform sanctification in your life from the moment He enters it? It's one thing to make Jesus Christ your Savior, but He must be your Lord (the Lord of your life) too!
Look, I don’t want to give the impression that I’m somehow any better than those I’m sharing this message with. Hardly! This is as much for me as it is for anyone who’s listening. Besides, self-righteousness is not righteousness, right?
It’s funny, and I’m always amazed at how the Lord orchestrates what I call "beautiful mysteries" to show us He’s there, and that He’s concerned about us at all times. The content of this post is a perfect example.
This past week, as I struggled with things, and considered this concept of what it means to "pursue holiness", I received one of those typical religious forwards via email -- or so I thought it was typical! No, this one was anything but!
It was simply called "Bible Vs Cell Phone" and I’d like to share it with you because I believe it will impact some of you the way it impacted me.
How cool is that? How true is that though? Pursue holiness. That’s what we need to do right now.
No, not as some junk “works-based” theology! I’m not talking about salvation here! I’m talking about allowing the Holy Spirit to work in your life, I’m talking about making Jesus Christ your Lord, and not just your Savior, I’m talking about living out your faith on a moment-to-moment basis so that it’s not mere lip service. Pursue holiness.
I consider the spiritual juxtaposition of these 2 separate groups of related news stories that are about a year removed from one another and I am immediately struck by what I interpret to be the clear message for the Body of Christ in the days, weeks, and months ahead...
Why? On what basis can we state that with any kind of authority? How about the ONLY authority that matters in this life?
Keep looking up! MARANATHA!!!
Share|
The symbolism at the time was striking given all that was going on in the world that was prophetically relevant. We tried to document those cases HERE and even offered up some analysis. Incredibly, that post was written in July 2009, or almost a full year ago.
A year later, it's seems like "fainting" is all the rage now. Of course, that reminds me of this prophetic verse...
Luke 21:26 (KJV) Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
The word "faint" occurs 41 times in 41 verses in the King James Version (KJV) of the Holy Bible. See if you notice anything "curious" about the passaged where this word shows up. I also recommend doing a Strong's Concordance study on the world too. So much from seemingly so little! Praise the Lord!
Genesis 25:29 (KJV) And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he [was] faint:
Genesis 25:30 (KJV) And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red [pottage]; for I [am] faint: therefore was his name called Edom.
Deuteronomy 20:3 (KJV) And shall say unto them, Hear, O Israel, ye approach this day unto battle against your enemies: let not your hearts faint, fear not, and do not tremble, neither be ye terrified because of them;
Deuteronomy 20:8 (KJV) And the officers shall speak further unto the people, and they shall say, What man [is there that is] fearful and fainthearted? let him go and return unto his house, lest his brethren's heart faint as well as his heart.
Deuteronomy 25:18 (KJV) How he met thee by the way, and smote the hindmost of thee, [even] all [that were] feeble behind thee, when thou [wast] faint and weary; and he feared not God.
Joshua 2:9 (KJV) And she said unto the men, I know that the LORD hath given you the land, and that your terror is fallen upon us, and that all the inhabitants of the land faint because of you.
Joshua 2:24 (KJV) And they said unto Joshua, Truly the LORD hath delivered into our hands all the land; for even all the inhabitants of the country do faint because of us.
Judges 8:4 (KJV) And Gideon came to Jordan, [and] passed over, he, and the three hundred men that [were] with him, faint, yet pursuing [them].
Judges 8:5 (KJV) And he said unto the men of Succoth, Give, I pray you, loaves of bread unto the people that follow me; for they [be] faint, and I am pursuing after Zebah and Zalmunna, kings of Midian.
1 Samuel 14:28 (KJV) Then answered one of the people, and said, Thy father straitly charged the people with an oath, saying, Cursed [be] the man that eateth [any] food this day. And the people were faint.
1 Samuel 14:31 (KJV) And they smote the Philistines that day from Michmash to Aijalon: and the people were very faint.
1 Samuel 30:10 (KJV) But David pursued, he and four hundred men: for two hundred abode behind, which were so faint that they could not go over the brook Besor.
1 Samuel 30:21 (KJV) And David came to the two hundred men, which were so faint that they could not follow David, whom they had made also to abide at the brook Besor: and they went forth to meet David, and to meet the people that [were] with him: and when David came near to the people, he saluted them.
2 Samuel 16:2 (KJV) And the king said unto Ziba, What meanest thou by these? And Ziba said, The asses [be] for the king's household to ride on; and the bread and summer fruit for the young men to eat; and the wine, that such as be faint in the wilderness may drink.
2 Samuel 21:15 (KJV) Moreover the Philistines had yet war again with Israel; and David went down, and his servants with him, and fought against the Philistines: and David waxed faint.
Proverbs 24:10 (KJV) [If] thou faint in the day of adversity, thy strength [is] small.
Isaiah 1:5 KJV Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint.
Isaiah 13:7 (KJV) Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt:
Isaiah 29:8 (KJV) It shall even be as when an hungry [man] dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, [he is] faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.
Isaiah 40:29 (KJV) He giveth power to the faint; and to [them that have] no might he increaseth strength.
Isaiah 40:30 (KJV) Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall:
Isaiah 40:31 (KJV) But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew [their] strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; [and] they shall walk, and not faint.
Isaiah 44:12 (KJV) The smith with the tongs both worketh in the coals, and fashioneth it with hammers, and worketh it with the strength of his arms: yea, he is hungry, and his strength faileth: he drinketh no water, and is faint.
Jeremiah 8:18 (KJV) [When] I would comfort myself against sorrow, my heart [is] faint in me.
Jeremiah 51:46 (KJV) And lest your heart faint, and ye fear for the rumour that shall be heard in the land; a rumour shall both come [one] year, and after that in [another] year [shall come] a rumour, and violence in the land, ruler against ruler.
Lamentations 1:13 (KJV) From above hath he sent fire into my bones, and it prevaileth against them: he hath spread a net for my feet, he hath turned me back: he hath made me desolate [and] faint all the day.
Lamentations 1:22 (KJV) Let all their wickedness come before thee; and do unto them, as thou hast done unto me for all my transgressions: for my sighs [are] many, and my heart [is] faint.
Lamentations 2:19 (KJV) Arise, cry out in the night: in the beginning of the watches pour out thine heart like water before the face of the Lord: lift up thy hands toward him for the life of thy young children, that faint for hunger in the top of every street.
Lamentations 5:17 (KJV) For this our heart is faint; for these [things] our eyes are dim.
Ezekiel 21:7 (KJV) And it shall be, when they say unto thee, Wherefore sighest thou? that thou shalt answer, For the tidings; because it cometh: and every heart shall melt, and all hands shall be feeble, and every spirit shall faint, and all knees shall be weak [as] water: behold, it cometh, and shall be brought to pass, saith the Lord GOD.
Ezekiel 21:15 (KJV) I have set the point of the sword against all their gates, that [their] heart may faint, and [their] ruins be multiplied: ah! [it is] made bright, [it is] wrapped up for the slaughter.
Amos 8:13 (KJV) In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.
Matthew 15:32 (KJV) Then Jesus called his disciples [unto him], and said, I have compassion on the multitude, because they continue with me now three days, and have nothing to eat: and I will not send them away fasting, lest they faint in the way.
Mark 8:3 (KJV) And if I send them away fasting to their own houses, they will faint by the way: for divers of them came from far.
Luke 18:1 (KJV) And he spake a parable unto them [to this end], that men ought always to pray, and not to faint;
2 Corinthians 4:1 (KJV) Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
2 Corinthians 4:16 (KJV) For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward [man] is renewed day by day.
Galatians 6:9 (KJV) And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Ephesians 3:13 (KJV) Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
Hebrews 12:3 (KJV) For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
Hebrews 12:5 (KJV) And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
The message is obvious, right? If not, I think that those who still don't "get it" are the ones who won't get it until it's on their doorstep and staring them in the face becoming all too real, too fast to even allow them to catch their breath. So be it! We've had more than enough time to spiritually prepare for the inevitable.
Within the past 2 weeks alone, we've seen two high-profile "fainting spells" caught on camera in very public settings. One involving a decorated military General. One involving an award winning CEO who's a leader of capitalism and industry.
The first occurred 2 weeks ago on June 15th involving General Patraeus who fainted while being questioned by Senator McCain about the progress in Afghanistan. The words that McCain uttered just before Petraeus fainted?
MCCAIN: "I am worried about the message we are sending in the region about whether we're actually going to stay or not, and whether we're going to do what's necessary to succeed, rather than set an arbitrary timeline, and the best way to..."
General Patraeus Faints While Being Questioned By Senator McCain
Looking at McCain's words JUST BEFORE THE GENERAL FAINTED from a SPIRITUAL PERSPECTIVE, is anyone else struck by how symbolic that language is if we were to rip them out of context and simply view them as our Heavenly Father, or the Holy Spirit, speaking directly to each and every one of us (but especially to the non-believers and false converts) on the eve of the Tribulation? I'm struck by them.
The words "whether we're actually going to stay or not" force me to think of the coming "escape" mentioned in Luke 21:36 (whether it's a literal Rapture event or not). Are we praying to escape the things to come just like Jesus commands us to in this verse?
The words "whether we're going to do what's necessary to succeed" force me to think about the process of sanctification. Are we allowing the Holy Spirit to sanctify us, or is Jesus Christ just our Savior, but not our Lord?
The words "rather than set an arbitrary timeline" force me to think about date-setting, or those who wrongly assume they have all the time in the world to "get right with God" in this life. Are we guilty of date-setting, and have we come to our senses are recognized our need for the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ today?
Fast forward to the present. Earlier today, the General Electric CEO Jim Campbell passed out and fell off the stage he was sitting on. The words that Vice President Biden uttered just before Campbell fainted?
BIDEN: "The company that doesn't innovate, stagnates..."
GE Appliance Division Head Collapses During Biden Speech
Biden's closing remarks? Yes, he actually continued with his closing remarks as if nothing happened.
As Campbell was taken away, Biden remarked: "So folks, as my grandfather used to say, 'keep the faith.'"
The audacity! First, he talks about how the company that doesn't innovate will ultimately stagnate, and I hear that and think about how it's the company/CEO/nation/group/individual that doesn't rely on God for all things -- rather than their own mere human agency -- that will ultimately stagnate and die. Then, I hear his closing comments to "keep the faith" and want to scream "HYPOCRITE!!!" at him!
And people say that God isn't intimately involved in our daily lives. But what (if anything) is being "communicated" here through the symbolism? I have a suspicion I want to share.
Well, if we look at what Gibby62 wrote last year in response to the broken RIGHT Ankle, Elbow, and Wrist stories...
"My thought was the the sheep and goats judgement (sheep to the right, goats to the left) and that since it was their right side that was broken, therefore they represent goats or anti-christ because Christ sits at the right hand of the father. The 'right' way is broken."
So, in a sense, a "Great Separation" was occurring (has already occurred). Now, perhaps the message is to MAINTAIN that separation -- to stick to the command to "Come out of her, my people" -- by pursuing holiness and by allowing the Holy Spirit to carry out His sanctifying work in your life.
I don't know, I could be WAY OFF BASE with that one and it could just be me trying to force that interpretation. After all, the past couple weeks I've been driven to pursue holiness more so than ever before. Yes, we all sense that Divine Judgment/Divine Retribution is at hand. If so, doesn't that mean that no more than ever we need to keep His Word close and His Son even closer?
In fact, I’ve been convicted by our need -- my need -- to pursue holiness even more than I do right now. Getting saved, being born again, isn’t a finish line – it’s a starting gun! Why don’t we view it as such though? I submit to you that it’s because we don’t truly respect and value the Word of God like we should, or like we say we do.
How can those who claim to be lovers of Christ, lovers of His Holy Word, not now what the text plainly says about living the Christian lifestyle and allowing the Holy Spirit to perform sanctification in your life from the moment He enters it? It's one thing to make Jesus Christ your Savior, but He must be your Lord (the Lord of your life) too!
Look, I don’t want to give the impression that I’m somehow any better than those I’m sharing this message with. Hardly! This is as much for me as it is for anyone who’s listening. Besides, self-righteousness is not righteousness, right?
It’s funny, and I’m always amazed at how the Lord orchestrates what I call "beautiful mysteries" to show us He’s there, and that He’s concerned about us at all times. The content of this post is a perfect example.
This past week, as I struggled with things, and considered this concept of what it means to "pursue holiness", I received one of those typical religious forwards via email -- or so I thought it was typical! No, this one was anything but!
It was simply called "Bible Vs Cell Phone" and I’d like to share it with you because I believe it will impact some of you the way it impacted me.
Ever wonder what would happen if we treated our Bible like we treat our cell phone? What if we carried it around in our purses or pockets? What if we flipped through it several times a day? What if we turned back to go get it if we forgot it? What if we used it to receive messages from the text? What if we treated it like we couldn't live without it? What if we gave it to Kids as gifts? What if we used it when we traveled? What if we used it in case of emergency? This is something to make you go…hmmm…where is my Bible? Oh, and one more thing. Unlike our cell phone, we don't have to worry about our Bible being disconnected because Jesus already paid the bill. Makes you stop and think about your priorities, doesn’t it? And best of all? No dropped calls! When Jesus died on the cross, he was thinking of you!
How cool is that? How true is that though? Pursue holiness. That’s what we need to do right now.
No, not as some junk “works-based” theology! I’m not talking about salvation here! I’m talking about allowing the Holy Spirit to work in your life, I’m talking about making Jesus Christ your Lord, and not just your Savior, I’m talking about living out your faith on a moment-to-moment basis so that it’s not mere lip service. Pursue holiness.
I consider the spiritual juxtaposition of these 2 separate groups of related news stories that are about a year removed from one another and I am immediately struck by what I interpret to be the clear message for the Body of Christ in the days, weeks, and months ahead...
As Christians, we are all broken hearted over our sins, but because we have Jesus Christ we will not faint from fear in response to what's coming upon the earth. Remain broken, remain humble, remain strong in Him by fighting fear with faith!
Why? On what basis can we state that with any kind of authority? How about the ONLY authority that matters in this life?
Luke 21:36 (KJV) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.
Matthew 10:28 (KJV) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Keep looking up! MARANATHA!!!
Share|
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25 Comments:
Just read this from Joseph Prince's new book "Unmerited Favor".
"If you think you have been forgiven little, then you will love little. But when you know the truth of how much you have been forgiven, you will love Jesus much! Knowing how much you have been forgiven is the secret to loving Jesus much when you experience His lavish grace and unmerited favor in forgiving you of all of your sins, past, present and future. But His grace is cheapened when you think that He has only forgiven you of your sins up to the time you got saved, and after that point, you have to depend upon your confession of sins to be forgiven.
God's forgiveness is not given in installments. Don't go around thinking that when you confess a sin, He forgives you only for that sin. Then, the next time you sin, you need to confess your sin again for Him to forgive you again. Such is the kind of belief that cheapens grace. And the result of this is that because you think that He has forgiven you little, you will end up loving Him little, and deprive yourself of running to Him and seeing Him help, deliver and prosper you.
Beloved, with one sacrifice on the cross, Jesus blotted out all the sins of your entire life! Don't cheapen His unmerited favor with your own imperfect efforts to confess all your sins. Accord this gift that Jesus has given you the value that it deserves by fully receiving and experiencing His unmerited favor today!"
Just remember, our righteousness is from Him as a result of His finished work on Calvary's cross. Our righteousness is in Him and Him alone. There is nothing that we can do to make ourselves any more righteous than Christ has made us. We just have to accept His finished work at the cross.
Rob,
Allow me to clarify...
You're absolutely right in a lot of what you wrote, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. But my comments are geared toward the issue of SANCTIFICATION and not SALVATION.
We're instructed to "examine ourselves" regularly, right? You're right to say that Jesus died for ALL of our sins -- past, present, and future. I get that.
But what I'm getting at here is the fact that far too many "Christians" that I know don't examine themselves regularly like they should, or they don't allow for the sanctification process to work in their lives because they think "getting saved" is the finish line as opposed to the starting gun.
So, when a fellow brother or sister in Christ trips and falls into sin they don't bat an eye over it. Worse, the Body of Christ fails to respond to such with righteous judgment, prayer, and encouragement and support. That's not right.
While I agree with your statements about the issue of SALVATION and what Jesus did for us in that regard, this entry is about SANCTIFICATION and what He's trying to do for us in that regard. I'm sorry for any confusion.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
A common problem with the church is the improper teaching of Jesus washing the disciples feet. When Jesus went to wash Peter's feet, Peter forbade him. Jesus replied, "If I don't do this, you have no part with me." Petr then replied, "Lord, not my feet only, but my head also." Jesus then replied, "Them that be clean need not be washed, but their feet only."
Jesus was saying we need to be forgiven of our daily sins. Even though he paid the price for our sins, it is up to us to get the receipt. It ties in with Jesus telling us to carry our cross daily. We have to choose to serve Jesus daily in this world. Jesus did not preach a once saved, always saved gospel, as some teach.
Plus, Jesus was saying that if we don't ask forgiveness of our sins, we don't get into Heaven.
When Jesus said we "need not be washed, but our feet only," he was saying we don't have to be saved all over again, just ask forgiveness for our sins we commit each day. It is a dirty world we live in, and Jesus used the footwashing as an example of that.
I won't question his salvation, but it sounds like Mr. Prince subscribes to the "once saved, always saved" theology. When Jesus gave the parable of the seed being sown on different types of ground he was preaching against this. I myself bought into it, but I no longer believe it. It leads into Gnosticism, which says you can commit all manner of sin and Jesus will forgive you, no matter what. Gnosticism teaches that you do not need to ask forgiveness for sins you commit in the future.
..it was a pleasure to read :)
- thank you
Lone
Sanctification comes to us as we turn our eyes upon Jesus and His finished work. There is nothing that we can do to sanctify ourselves. He has already done it. All that we really need to do is to behold Him and realize that He loves us and His grace will sanctify us. If we focus on ourselves and what we have to do to stop sinning we already lost the battle. The battle is His. That is why He said to come to Him all who labor and are heavy laden and He is the one who will give us rest. Remember that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. Paul had to come to the end of himself before he realized this truth. This is the truth that sets us free to become all that He wants us to be. This is the good news, the abundant life that Jesus talked about.
My dear brother in Christ, no one ever claimed that we "sanctify ourselves" because that would be absurd and in complete contradiction to His Word.
Again, you and I are so close to meeting minds on this one. Again, you're right about what your wrote in your most recent comment.
To clarify further, I didn't mean to suggest that it's "about us" and that the focus should be on ourselves not Jesus. But we can't ignore the truth either...
2 Corinthians 13:5 "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"
This is what I'm talking about here. We need to REGULARLY examine ourselves because if we do we'll constantly recognize our need for Jesus. It's when we don't do this regularly that we begin to backslide some and lose that sense of overwhelming gratitude in response to His sacrifice on your undeserved behalf.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Rob, sorry I don't buy it.
John 8:11 And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
We are saved THROUGH Jesus. His death on the cross enabled that. But we constantly work through the Holy Spirit to ask forgiveness. Jesus' job was completed on the cross, but it is a work ongoing for us. Otherwise, Jesus would of told the adultress, "Go and don't worry about it. I got you covered."
Thanks Jeff for your response! We are very close to meeting minds on this issue.
Anonymous, You said that we are saved through Jesus but we have to constantly work through the Holy Spirit. Please show me a verse that says that and I will consider it. The Bible does say in Colossians 2:13 "And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses." All means all. All of your sins were in the future when He died on the cross.
As for John 8:11 this is a perfect example of God's unmerited favor. This woman was exonerated by Jesus without a confession of sin on her part. She knew she was forgiven totally. Jesus did it all for this woman. All she had to do was to accept His mercy. When He told her to "sin no more", He knew that she had the power through His love and grace to stop sinning. She was the one who loved much because she was forgiven much. It is His love for us that truly enables us to stop sinning.
Does this mean that we are perfect. Of course not, but we are righteous nonetheless. Not because of anything that we have done but because of what He did for us. Because of the Blood of Jesus, God sees us as "not guilty".
Mr Bighead, Joseph Prince addresses Gnosticism in his book and he states the following "Gnostics are heretics who do not believe in the existence of sin". He also states in his book that 1 John chapter one addresses the gnostics and especially verse 8-10 " If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us."
Just wanted to clarify for you that Mr. Prince does not espouse Gnosticism in any shape or form.
Rob, per your request:
Romans 8:1-17
This whole passage talks about living by the Spirit and it is through this process we please God. Christ on the cross was the sin offering, but we have a continued obligation to seek the spirit.
Romans 12 Therefore, brothers, we have an obligation- but it is not to a sinful nature, to live according to it. For if you live according to sinful nature, you will die, but if you live by the Spirit you put to death misdeeds of the body, you will live, because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
LOL!! Did I really say that a year ago??!! That MUST be a Spirit thing, because I was amazed at reading the insight a year later!!!
I think we should pay close attention when we see Pastors repeating messages totally independently from each other. My local Pastor, David Wilkerson, Michael Boldea and probably others are talking about valley experiences--what they mean, why they happen and how to thrive through them or despite them. I think there are many faith shaking, and faith building opportunities for us in the near future. Faith is not built on an untested foundation or one that has not been strengthened!! I think God is trying to tell us that many of us are soon going to be experiencing the valley and to prepare ourselves for that.
HOW AWESOME IS OUR GOD, THAT HE PREPARES US!!!
Anonymous, Romans 8:17 is concerning walking in the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is given to us by God's grace. There is nothing that we can do to earn His presence. God gives us His Spirit to help us to walk in righteousness and we who follow the Spirit are not under condemnation. It's all by God's Grace. This passage does not mention confessing sins or work.
Rob, I knew you would be unmoved. Not sure why I bothered.
When you are walking in the Spirit, you are not sinning. You can not be doing both at the same time. When you cease to walk in the Spirit, then starts you path with sin. Therefore, it is our obligation to stay on the narrow path.
Incedently, I was unsure of the scriptural passage I was going to find that would support my position. As evidence of God's awesome power, it took me 2 whole seconds, as fast as it took me to open the bible. This was the first passage I came to. God is truely great!!
We might be splitting hairs here, but Jesus' forgiving power is always with us, but we have to seek him always in the Spirit. His death on the cross applies to ALL sins, that is true, past, present and future, but that does not release us from the obligation to seek forgiveness and repentence.
If you wrong someone in the future, do you say sorry again or do you just say, I apologized for that last week?
In response to the once saved always saved, I believe satan can"t pluck you from Gods hand but you can walk away if you choose to.But I also believe that when you are truly saved you want to live for Jesus and you automatically repent for anything you do that would offend God, and you talk to him all day long His Spirit is with you always . After I asked Jesus to be my Lord and Savior I could no longer watch the things i used to watch on T.V. or when I hear bad language it makes my heart break knowing that i talked like that. the list goes on and on, He opens your eyes to all the evil in the world. People think they just have to stand up in a alter call and they will be saved ,then they just live there life with a false security its really very sad. The church Im sorry to say has fallen in this area, repent and be saved, turn from your sins, THE word REPENT is very important ! The grace of my loving GOD allows me to get up every day and live in this Godless world, and to love godless people and try and be a light in this world, I m Not a book smart person but I believe God carries me when he sees I need help. He is my strong tower!!!!
IN CHRIST ALWAYS!
MARANATHA
Rob, you realise that when you quoted Prince (and I would caution you to do a google search on him and many lable him a false prophet) you took one position...then when you quoted from the Bible you took the OPPOSITE position. Did you read the verse you quoted? It was the one I was going to include here.
I would suggest you read less of Mr. Prince and more of the Bible since we are not to be followers of anyone but Jesus and you shouldn't worry about quoting Prince..a fallen man.
Jeff, I'm curious what denomination you are, if any. I expect to get some flack for the question from some here, but I get an odd feeling when visiting this site.
Anonymous,
I pray that "odd feeling" you get is the Holy Spirit convicting you because that's what I try to set out to accomplish -- calling the Body of Christ's attention to weighty spiritual matters that we should be thinking about on a regular basis.
It's all in an effort to bring glory and honor to Jesus Christ, and to get all of us -- myself most certainly included -- to look in the mirror often and "examine ourselves" (2 Corinthians 13:5) while praying that we're counted worthy to escape the things to come (Luke 21:36).
Whenever people ask me this question I answer by telling them that I'm a Christian. The man-made labels that come from various religious sects bother me. However, when I go to church (and I will regrettably admit that my family and I haven't been to our church in awhile) it's a Lutheran one.
Now that I've done my part "Anonymous", I'd like to ask you if you are a Christian? Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior?
God Bless You,
Jeff ("JRed")
Jeff,
Yes! Jesus is my Lord and Savior! Even though I know deep down that I am not worthy of His love, sacrifice and forgiveness. I believe that Jesus is the Son of God, died for my sins and was resurrected on the third day. I belong to a Baptist church, although I haven't been for awhile. Anyway, I was just curious and I thank you for your answer.
To all the anonymouse's out there: I'm getting confused as to who is who. Could you please consider getting a different name or maybe anonymous1, anonymous2 etc. Thanks Brothers!
Anonymous, I will take your advice and blog Prince to see what others are saying, but the problem is, who is doing the saying? Many good Christians are called false prophets everyday because of differences in doctrinal opinions. One thing that I know about Prince is that he preaches the Cross of Christ and believes that we are saved and forgiven by His shed Blood. To say that he is a fallen man because you don't agree with him doctrinally is rather harsh.
Well, I followed your advice and googled Joseph Prince and I am happy to say that no one was able to make a good argument against him. Now I encourage you to hear for yourself and judge with right judgement one of Joseph Prince's messages and see for yourself whether he is doctrinally pure. Here is the link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4125235465363033202#
This is the last time I will bring up Joseph's name on this blog because it hurts me to see him defamed and trashed since he is my brother in Christ. God bless you all and may you grow in the grace and in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Rob,
Don't waste time friend, read the Bible only. You need no other teacher than the Holy Spirit.
You said it is not good to call Prince "fallen"..yet the BIBLE calls us ALL fallen see Romans 3:10 "As it is written, Ther eis none righteous, no,not one. Jesus himself said this as well. Paul warned those in the early church not to call themselves followers of himself or anyone else because only Jesus was crucified. We should follow only HIM.
Read the verse you quoted again "IF we are faithful to CONFESS our sins....". We are to confess them, repent of them and He will cleanse us and help us.
Romans Chapter 6 and 7 go into the grace we are afforded and the war of sin within us.
Romans Chapter 8 verssus 26-28 specifically talks about the Holy Spirit making intercession for us for our infirmaties. Chapter 7 verses 13-25 is Paul talking about how he is constantly having to fight against sin. How we are slaves to sin until we give over to Christ then we are SLAVES of Christ. The Freedom is from the WAGES of sin (DEATH)not from having to ask forgiveness for it.
Furthermore Chapter 10 verse 9 through 10..specifically for your question verse 10. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Peter chapter 1 vs 22.
Second Peter would be very good for you to read. Specifically Chapter 2, especially 20-22 which speaks specifically of those who come to know Christ then LOSE THEIR SALVATION!
Read the Bible Brother. Prince will not save you. His words and teachings will not save you. 1 John teaches specifically that you need no teacher other than the Holy Spirit.
Many Blessings :)
Ace
..i ve a bad feeling about this mrPrince...he s only partially right - and these are the most dangerous.... the Gospel was never ment to justify a solid marriage to this world, like he proposes..
outwardly, he sounds righteous...but the result is horrible... Accepting/believing what the Lord did is but the very first step...after that comes the struggle from the soul, when He is taking away all the things of this world from the Self.... the Self will not give up...like a spoiled child..
'ye adulterers...dont you know that friendship...' is the first thing coming to mind by these
'teachings'..
love you all
be vigilant
Lone
My dear friend Christine H shared this on her Facebook page and I just had to include it here because it seemed appropriate to this discussion:
"When I say that 'I’m a Christian', I’m not shouting that I’m clean living.
I'm whispering...'I was lost, but now I'm found and forgiven.'
When I say 'I'm a Christian', I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble and need Christ to be my guide.
When I say 'I’m a Christian', I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I'm weak, and need His strength to carry on."
Amen!
Thanks for your advice, but I assure you that I do not follow Joseph Prince or any other man. The Lord does give us teachers to edify us and if the Holy Spirit leads and blesses you through them, fine. If not, do not pay attention. In my opinion, Prince is giving sound teaching from the scriptures. If you do not agree, that is fine. Just keep following the Lord and He will lead you into all truth.
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