NOTE: This blog entry was also just recorded as an RNR Aftershock report for Right Now Radio called "Mo Apostasy, Mo Problems" for those who prefer and audio version. This is a written version -- that barely scratches the surface of all that was covered last night -- derived from my show notes used during the presentation of that Bible study. What I'm getting at is that this is merely the Introduction. Please take some time to listen to that important Bible study recorded last night as soon as you can.
Look Up Fellowship has always been a forum for those who have recognized that it's time for them to "graduate" from spiritual milk to spiritual meat.
In other words, I've always viewed it as being a forum for those ready to tackle heavier matters, but also for those "Christians who should know better" about certain spiritual things.
Today, I actually want to devote an entire post to one aspect of the Apostasy that we're seeing infect Christianity worldwide: A lack of discernment when it comes to what the Bible says about Sanctification in a believer's life.
This study stems from the popular phrase that “Being born again, getting saved, isn’t a finish line – it’s a starting gun…” and all that means is that there are far too many Christians alive today who think about Salvation, but they think nothing of Sanctification. They allow Jesus Christ to become their Savior, but not their Lord.
That’s a big problem because while we’re not talking about any kind of a “works-based” theology here, we are talking about making sure we take the command to “examine ourselves” seriously, as well as learning how to submit to the Holy Spirit daily so that we are living obediently to the Lord the way He instructs us to in both body and mind, so that we don’t run the risk of becoming “Christians-In-Name-Only”, of living like “False Converts”, or of encouraging that type of behavior and lifestyle from others.
This particular topic has been a contentious one in these parts lately as well as in the other forums I have the privilege of overseeing at the moment, which is why I don't want to just ignore it and pray that the "debate" will go away.
It's too serious a subject and I fear that far too many Christians are minimizing it to their own detriment. I mean, I'm not saying that if you are one of those Christians who is brushing this off as "no big deal" (or not giving it the level of importance it demands) that you are somehow a "Christian-In-Name-Only", a that you're definitely a "False Convert", or certainly "going to Hell" because I don't know your heart, and I can't say that but...you could be one of those things.
That's not a matter of MY OWN OPINION or MY OWN INTERPRETATION. That's what we discover from God's Word, which speaks of the reality of such people.
Let's never forget to recall these verses...
May those 2 haunting verses motivate us to also take the command given to us in 2 Corinthians seriously also...
The following quote comes from a Sermon by Rick Holland entitled "The War Against Your Soul" and I highly recommend MAKING THE TIME to listen to it...
You can listen to this Sermon series here...
I didn't get the chance to include this in last night's show, but that quote I pulled from Holland's Sermon got me thinking about 1 Peter. Sure enough, when I went to the Word and re-read what we find in 1 Peter 2, I was amazed by the fact that one chapter -- a mere 25 verses long -- as so much to say about EVERYTHING as it relates to this very important issue! Praise the Lord!
I won't offer up any commentary on this passage, but I will say that this is yet another powerful proof to support the things discussed last night. Hopefully, that will entice you to listen.
What I hope to impress upon anyone reading this today (mainly those who call themselves Christians) is, please, don't take this lightly. Yes, I know that this is all a fulfillment of the prophesied Apostasy (i.e. "falling away"), but it's still concerns me as it should each and every genuine, true-blue Christian.
Welcome to Western Christianity where we pull out all the stops to make False Converts and inoculate them from the true Gospel because the truth is often challenging, convicting, and uncomfortable. A world where black is now white, up is now down, hot is now cold, dry is now wet, and living in disobedience to God is now "producing fruit for the Lord, but in my own unique way".
It's also a world where sadly this type of foolishness is quickly becoming the norm, and those who still try to hold to a reverence for God are quickly and summarily dismissed as being "legalists", being "judgmental", and/or being "Pharisees". Woe unto us!
I have to defer to DefCon on this one...
Look, I'm in no way trying to imply or suggest that I'm somehow "holier-than-thou", but I am trying to get us to realize that we can't take Sanctification lightly like far too many Christians today do. That's a VERY SERIOUS problem!
Explain to me why the following holds true (from DefCon also), why this is the reality I face, whenever I engage with those living their lives in "Cultural Christianity" and attempt to point out the un-Biblical nature of the things they believe our of GENUINE LOVING CONCERN FOR THEIR SPIRITUAL HEALTH as opposed to "making them feel bad" or "proving my point"...
Did I leave anything out? Do you see what I mean though?
I will reiterate that I wholeheartedly believe (based on what I read in the Word of God) that there should be a marked difference between a Christian who has the Holy Spirit present in their life and a non-Christian (a "Christian-In-Name-Only") who doesn't. When I read the Bible -- the same Bible that you have -- that's what I come away with after a LITERAL, STRAIGHT-FORWARD reading of God's Word.
That's not being "judgmental" either. That's just being a Bible-believing, God-fearing Christian. Even so, for good measure, for anyone who has fallen for SATAN'S LIE that "Judge not lest you be judged!" (especially Christians who believe in that bunk) you can also listen to these studies on the subject (no, not my opinion, but a study of what God's Word LITERALLY says) that prove otherwise...
The answer to the whole quote-unquote "debate" can be answered by one word: Sovereignty; as in the Sovereignty of God.
Actually, I’d like to add that the "disagreements" that brothers and sisters in Christ have over these issues could be put to rest not just by the reality of God’s Sovereignty, but by the reality that the Word as found in the Holy Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant, holy Word of God. Unless a person believes in those 2 fundamental truths, then they are opening themselves up to being deceived by Satan.
I know that the Doctrines of Grace are a hard pill to swallow for many Christians who are alive in this day and age of Apostasy, and Political Correctness, and Self-Esteemism. I know we're not hearing these kinds of teachings from our Pastors these days. I also know that it flies in the face of our entrenched positions because we haven't heard this in our churches, or read it for ourselves because we don't read our Bible like we should.
Please don't think I'm trying to present myself as having known this all along or something either. Gosh no! I've been there myself. In fact, the reason I am so passionate about these things is because if we can’t get it right on the most BASIC ISSUES, THE FUNDAMENTAL TENETS OF OUR SHARED FAITH, then what business do we even have calling ourselves Christians? More importantly, how can we ever expect to preach the Gospel -- the true Gospel -- to a world that desperately needs to hear it? I mean, if we don’t know what we’re talking about when it comes to this critical subject, then can we trust we’ll know what we’re talking about when it comes to other critical subjects of our Christian faith?
When and how did we get to this place where we traded the truth for a lie!?! I’m serious folks, I’m pretty peeved over this kind of stuff! I’m only 31 years old and even though I’ve been a born-again, saved Christian for 7 years now I feel cheated!
On one hand, I’m angry at myself for not opening up this Book we call the Holy Bible more than I did. I’m angry at myself for not reading it as much as I should’ve. I’m angry at those so-called religious leaders, men and women of faith, Christian authors and such who I thought I was learning from, but who didn’t know any better either! I’m angry that we’ve allowed Satan to establish a foothold of foolish thinking within contemporary Christianity to the point where I’ll finish writing this important message and there will be many who will write me to tell me why I’m wrong and why I’m spreading lies and why I need to stop doing what I’m doing! Lord, forgive me for my anger! I pray that it's a "righteous anger" (John 7:24).
First of all, it’s NOT ABOUT ME! It’s NEVER about me! It’s about our Heavenly Father, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Word of God as found in the Bible, and the truth –- that’s what this is about!
So before anyone blasts me, I will kindly ask that if you’re going to do that you better come with Scripture to back up your position because I've tried to be as exhaustive as I possibly could in last night's podcast using as many verses as I could find to support the study I was giving.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I certainly don’t want to be guilty of causing division amongst the Body of Believers, but is trying to wake people to the truth really classified as "causing division", or is it more like a "call to arms" in a sense? Are you going to be "hot", "cold", or "lukewarm" about all of this?
We use the Bible to interpret the Bible, right? The Bible does not contradict itself, right? That's where this journey began for me. Thank God for that!
A desire to find out what is true over all of the falsehoods and inconsistencies I had been taught is what God used to lead me to studying the Doctrines of Grace. If you want debate the Doctrines of Grace further, or study them then on your own, here's a link to a PDF File that gives a listing to all the Scriptures that covers the doctrines...
Furthermore, if you would like me to send you the Word Document of the show notes and script I used for last night's broadcast, then just send me an email with your contact info and I'd be happy to get that to you right away.
See, this whole "debate" stemmed from my position (based on the Word of God so that it's not merely "my own opinion" or "my own interpretation") that there should be a marked difference between a Christian and a non-Christian (or a "Christian-In-Name-Only" even).
There it is! Again, we find this constant theme of how Christians are actually supposed to appear and act much differently than carnal man, than the world around them. That’s not my interpretation, that’s not my opinion, that’s what the Word of God says.
No, no one can live a perfect life, but that’s not what we’re even talking about here. We’re talking about how many Christians don’t even care TO TRY AND LIVE A LIFE THAT’S PLEASING TO GOD AND IN SUBMISSION TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. Instead, they prefer to make Jesus their Savior, but not their Lord. They memorize and love all the verses that tell them how they’re saved and destined for eternity, but they loathe the ones that speak about pursuing holiness and righteousness once they are saved and born again.
Again, I also think this all boils down to the issue of Sovereignty, as in the Sovereignty of God. He is Sovereign -- not man.
What can we say about today's study except that it is further proof that the prophesied Apostasy is well underway today. Cling to Jesus, cling to your Bible.
My dear brothers and sisters in Christ, if nothing else, I pray that the truth shared with you in this post convinced you that it’s time for us to get our spiritual house in order especially in this late and urgent hour of humanity.
How do we do that? By repenting of our sins for judgment is coming!
Share|
Look Up Fellowship has always been a forum for those who have recognized that it's time for them to "graduate" from spiritual milk to spiritual meat.
In other words, I've always viewed it as being a forum for those ready to tackle heavier matters, but also for those "Christians who should know better" about certain spiritual things.
Today, I actually want to devote an entire post to one aspect of the Apostasy that we're seeing infect Christianity worldwide: A lack of discernment when it comes to what the Bible says about Sanctification in a believer's life.
This study stems from the popular phrase that “Being born again, getting saved, isn’t a finish line – it’s a starting gun…” and all that means is that there are far too many Christians alive today who think about Salvation, but they think nothing of Sanctification. They allow Jesus Christ to become their Savior, but not their Lord.
That’s a big problem because while we’re not talking about any kind of a “works-based” theology here, we are talking about making sure we take the command to “examine ourselves” seriously, as well as learning how to submit to the Holy Spirit daily so that we are living obediently to the Lord the way He instructs us to in both body and mind, so that we don’t run the risk of becoming “Christians-In-Name-Only”, of living like “False Converts”, or of encouraging that type of behavior and lifestyle from others.
This particular topic has been a contentious one in these parts lately as well as in the other forums I have the privilege of overseeing at the moment, which is why I don't want to just ignore it and pray that the "debate" will go away.
It's too serious a subject and I fear that far too many Christians are minimizing it to their own detriment. I mean, I'm not saying that if you are one of those Christians who is brushing this off as "no big deal" (or not giving it the level of importance it demands) that you are somehow a "Christian-In-Name-Only", a that you're definitely a "False Convert", or certainly "going to Hell" because I don't know your heart, and I can't say that but...you could be one of those things.
That's not a matter of MY OWN OPINION or MY OWN INTERPRETATION. That's what we discover from God's Word, which speaks of the reality of such people.
Let's never forget to recall these verses...
Matthew 7:22-23 (KJV) Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
May those 2 haunting verses motivate us to also take the command given to us in 2 Corinthians seriously also...
2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
The following quote comes from a Sermon by Rick Holland entitled "The War Against Your Soul" and I highly recommend MAKING THE TIME to listen to it...
"Do the people around you see you as an alien or stranger or do they see you just like them? Same affections, same lives, same movies, same dress, same-same?"
- Rick Holland
You can listen to this Sermon series here...
The War Against Your Soul - PART 1
The War Against Your Soul - PART 2
The War Against Your Soul - PART 3
The War Against Your Soul - PART 4
I didn't get the chance to include this in last night's show, but that quote I pulled from Holland's Sermon got me thinking about 1 Peter. Sure enough, when I went to the Word and re-read what we find in 1 Peter 2, I was amazed by the fact that one chapter -- a mere 25 verses long -- as so much to say about EVERYTHING as it relates to this very important issue! Praise the Lord!
I won't offer up any commentary on this passage, but I will say that this is yet another powerful proof to support the things discussed last night. Hopefully, that will entice you to listen.
1 Peter 2:1-25 (NIV) - Emphasis Mine
1 Therefore, rid yourselves of all malice and all deceit, hypocrisy, envy, and slander of every kind. 2 Like newborn babies, crave pure spiritual milk, so that by it you may grow up in your salvation, 3 now that you have tasted that the Lord is good.
4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by men but chosen by God and precious to him— 5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For in Scripture it says:
“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.”a
7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the capstone,b”c
8 and,
“A stone that causes men to stumble
and a rock that makes them fall.”d
They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
11 Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world, to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul. 12 Live such good lives among the pagans that, though they accuse you of doing wrong, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day he visits us.
13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men: whether to the king, as the supreme authority, 14 or to governors, who are sent by him to punish those who do wrong and to commend those who do right. 15 For it is God’s will that by doing good you should silence the ignorant talk of foolish men. 16 Live as free men, but do not use your freedom as a cover-up for evil; live as servants of God. 17 Show proper respect to everyone: Love the brotherhood of believers, fear God, honor the king.
18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh. 19 For it is commendable if a man bears up under the pain of unjust suffering because he is conscious of God. 20 But how is it to your credit if you receive a beating for doing wrong and endure it? But if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God. 21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
22 “He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.”e
23 When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24 He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by his wounds you have been healed. 25 For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.
What I hope to impress upon anyone reading this today (mainly those who call themselves Christians) is, please, don't take this lightly. Yes, I know that this is all a fulfillment of the prophesied Apostasy (i.e. "falling away"), but it's still concerns me as it should each and every genuine, true-blue Christian.
Welcome to Western Christianity where we pull out all the stops to make False Converts and inoculate them from the true Gospel because the truth is often challenging, convicting, and uncomfortable. A world where black is now white, up is now down, hot is now cold, dry is now wet, and living in disobedience to God is now "producing fruit for the Lord, but in my own unique way".
It's also a world where sadly this type of foolishness is quickly becoming the norm, and those who still try to hold to a reverence for God are quickly and summarily dismissed as being "legalists", being "judgmental", and/or being "Pharisees". Woe unto us!
I have to defer to DefCon on this one...
"Anytime someone enters into a new culture it is important for them to understand the customs and even the language of that culture. Many cultures differ from ours and their words, terms, and expressions can hold entirely different meanings to them than they do to us.
It is for this reason that I’ve chosen to provide the readers of DefCon with the following public service to help everyone understand the new culture that is before us. So many times we come into contact with others on this blog who are from a world entirely foreign to ours. When you make a statement, the new wave of Laodicean Christians may define it very differently from how you understand it and meant it.
In order to avoid the confusion that would arise as a result of this, simply refer to this handy little guide when you are engaging those from Cultural Christianity."
Look, I'm in no way trying to imply or suggest that I'm somehow "holier-than-thou", but I am trying to get us to realize that we can't take Sanctification lightly like far too many Christians today do. That's a VERY SERIOUS problem!
Explain to me why the following holds true (from DefCon also), why this is the reality I face, whenever I engage with those living their lives in "Cultural Christianity" and attempt to point out the un-Biblical nature of the things they believe our of GENUINE LOVING CONCERN FOR THEIR SPIRITUAL HEALTH as opposed to "making them feel bad" or "proving my point"...
WHAT I (AND OTHERS LIKE ME) MEAN vs. WHAT THEY (YOU) MEAN:
Seeking After Holiness = Legalism
Exercising Discernment = Being Judgmental
False Conversion = Carnal Christian
Tolerating Sinful Behavior = Christian Love
Following Christ’s Commands = Phariseeism
Exposing False Prophets = Touching God’s Anointed
Not Following False Prophets = You’re Not Spiritual Enough
Tolerating Lies, Errors, Deception, And Heresy = Christian Unity
Hell = God Would Never Send Anyone To Hell! God Is Love
God’s Judgment And Wrath = Not The God I Serve! God Is Love
Friendship With The World = Gotta Be Like Them To Reach Them
Belief In The Final Authority Of Scripture = Intolerant Fundamentalist
Use Of Vulgarities And Coarse Language / Being Obscene And Offensive = Hip And Relevant; Showing The World How Real We Are
Did I leave anything out? Do you see what I mean though?
Isaiah 5:20-21 (KJV) Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter! Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes And clever in their own sight!
I will reiterate that I wholeheartedly believe (based on what I read in the Word of God) that there should be a marked difference between a Christian who has the Holy Spirit present in their life and a non-Christian (a "Christian-In-Name-Only") who doesn't. When I read the Bible -- the same Bible that you have -- that's what I come away with after a LITERAL, STRAIGHT-FORWARD reading of God's Word.
That's not being "judgmental" either. That's just being a Bible-believing, God-fearing Christian. Even so, for good measure, for anyone who has fallen for SATAN'S LIE that "Judge not lest you be judged!" (especially Christians who believe in that bunk) you can also listen to these studies on the subject (no, not my opinion, but a study of what God's Word LITERALLY says) that prove otherwise...
The answer to the whole quote-unquote "debate" can be answered by one word: Sovereignty; as in the Sovereignty of God.
Actually, I’d like to add that the "disagreements" that brothers and sisters in Christ have over these issues could be put to rest not just by the reality of God’s Sovereignty, but by the reality that the Word as found in the Holy Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant, holy Word of God. Unless a person believes in those 2 fundamental truths, then they are opening themselves up to being deceived by Satan.
I know that the Doctrines of Grace are a hard pill to swallow for many Christians who are alive in this day and age of Apostasy, and Political Correctness, and Self-Esteemism. I know we're not hearing these kinds of teachings from our Pastors these days. I also know that it flies in the face of our entrenched positions because we haven't heard this in our churches, or read it for ourselves because we don't read our Bible like we should.
Please don't think I'm trying to present myself as having known this all along or something either. Gosh no! I've been there myself. In fact, the reason I am so passionate about these things is because if we can’t get it right on the most BASIC ISSUES, THE FUNDAMENTAL TENETS OF OUR SHARED FAITH, then what business do we even have calling ourselves Christians? More importantly, how can we ever expect to preach the Gospel -- the true Gospel -- to a world that desperately needs to hear it? I mean, if we don’t know what we’re talking about when it comes to this critical subject, then can we trust we’ll know what we’re talking about when it comes to other critical subjects of our Christian faith?
When and how did we get to this place where we traded the truth for a lie!?! I’m serious folks, I’m pretty peeved over this kind of stuff! I’m only 31 years old and even though I’ve been a born-again, saved Christian for 7 years now I feel cheated!
On one hand, I’m angry at myself for not opening up this Book we call the Holy Bible more than I did. I’m angry at myself for not reading it as much as I should’ve. I’m angry at those so-called religious leaders, men and women of faith, Christian authors and such who I thought I was learning from, but who didn’t know any better either! I’m angry that we’ve allowed Satan to establish a foothold of foolish thinking within contemporary Christianity to the point where I’ll finish writing this important message and there will be many who will write me to tell me why I’m wrong and why I’m spreading lies and why I need to stop doing what I’m doing! Lord, forgive me for my anger! I pray that it's a "righteous anger" (John 7:24).
First of all, it’s NOT ABOUT ME! It’s NEVER about me! It’s about our Heavenly Father, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, the Word of God as found in the Bible, and the truth –- that’s what this is about!
So before anyone blasts me, I will kindly ask that if you’re going to do that you better come with Scripture to back up your position because I've tried to be as exhaustive as I possibly could in last night's podcast using as many verses as I could find to support the study I was giving.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I certainly don’t want to be guilty of causing division amongst the Body of Believers, but is trying to wake people to the truth really classified as "causing division", or is it more like a "call to arms" in a sense? Are you going to be "hot", "cold", or "lukewarm" about all of this?
We use the Bible to interpret the Bible, right? The Bible does not contradict itself, right? That's where this journey began for me. Thank God for that!
A desire to find out what is true over all of the falsehoods and inconsistencies I had been taught is what God used to lead me to studying the Doctrines of Grace. If you want debate the Doctrines of Grace further, or study them then on your own, here's a link to a PDF File that gives a listing to all the Scriptures that covers the doctrines...
What The Bible Says About The Doctrines Of Grace
Furthermore, if you would like me to send you the Word Document of the show notes and script I used for last night's broadcast, then just send me an email with your contact info and I'd be happy to get that to you right away.
See, this whole "debate" stemmed from my position (based on the Word of God so that it's not merely "my own opinion" or "my own interpretation") that there should be a marked difference between a Christian and a non-Christian (or a "Christian-In-Name-Only" even).
1 Corinthians 2:14 (NIV) But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
John 3:3 (NIV) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
2 Corinthians 13:5 (NIV) Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
1 Corinthians 3:1-3 (NIV) Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly--mere infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?
There it is! Again, we find this constant theme of how Christians are actually supposed to appear and act much differently than carnal man, than the world around them. That’s not my interpretation, that’s not my opinion, that’s what the Word of God says.
No, no one can live a perfect life, but that’s not what we’re even talking about here. We’re talking about how many Christians don’t even care TO TRY AND LIVE A LIFE THAT’S PLEASING TO GOD AND IN SUBMISSION TO THE HOLY SPIRIT. Instead, they prefer to make Jesus their Savior, but not their Lord. They memorize and love all the verses that tell them how they’re saved and destined for eternity, but they loathe the ones that speak about pursuing holiness and righteousness once they are saved and born again.
Again, I also think this all boils down to the issue of Sovereignty, as in the Sovereignty of God. He is Sovereign -- not man.
What can we say about today's study except that it is further proof that the prophesied Apostasy is well underway today. Cling to Jesus, cling to your Bible.
My dear brothers and sisters in Christ, if nothing else, I pray that the truth shared with you in this post convinced you that it’s time for us to get our spiritual house in order especially in this late and urgent hour of humanity.
How do we do that? By repenting of our sins for judgment is coming!
Share|
13 Comments:
Part of the problem Jeff, is that there are so many judgemental Christians and preachers that have turned many off to the gospel. They are all over the internet spouting hateful words, even using profanity and threats. They are anti-muslim, anti-liberal, anti-gay etc. Jesus wasn't anti-anybody. He was harsh with the Pharisees though! He loved all men and woman and ate a drank with them. His acceptance of them is what produced the change in their hearts. Many have preached one thing and have done the opposite. Look at all the scandals in the Church for example. The world needs to see people that are totally different than what the world is offering. More compassion, more forgiveness and love will do more to restore the Church's reputation than preaching alone. We have to stop being issues oriented and more Christ oriented. We should be loving our enemies. These are things that aren't preached today. Much of what is out there is confrontational and worldly. We are trying to change the world instead of men's hearts. We need to humble ourselves before the Lord and ask Him to give us the strength to do what Jesus said. Love God and love our neighbor as ourselves sums up all the law and the prophets.
AMEN!!!!!!
Amen for Rob! I agree! Today, some Christians are not preaching the Gospel (the Good News is Jesus), but rather the bible and how horrible sinning is and fire and brimstone. Then they turn around and look like the hypocrites the Pharisees were! It's not about the bible and sinning and living like a Christian, it's about sharing the love of Jesus and getting people saved by accepting Jesus in their heart. AFTER that, THEN they need to be fed and taught what being a Christian is. So many "well meaning" Christians are putting the carriage ahead of the horse and that is what causes non-Christians to walk away. Without the Spirit of God in their heart first, they will never get the rest.
Those without the Spirit do not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to them, and they cannot understand them. Save them by telling them about the love Jesus first.
Nick
By the way... there is no war against my soul. My soul belongs to Jesus and no one including Satan can touch it. :^). A war as you state implies that some conquering force is attempting to capture my soul. That's like saying Jesus isn't strong enough to hold me or that Satan can over come the Spirit of God. That is wrong. This war is one of struggle, not a warfare where there is a winner and a loser.
You must understand, either we are Sanctified or we are not. Sanctification is not a wavering force that only holds us when we are perfect. I am only perfect when I am in Christ. Either I am in Christ and Christ in me or I am not saved at all! Does Jesus say you are only saved at certain moments, like some sort of chance game? NO! Satan is only interested in the un-saved and keeping them un-saved. That is a war of winners and losers. I've already won that war!!!
You seem to hold the same rules of warfare on saved Christians as on non-Christians and that just in not so. We have divine protection. We have the full armor of God!
In God's great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that can NEVER perish, spoil or fade—kept in heaven for you, who THROUGH FAITH are SHIELDED by God's power until the coming of the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.
Through my faith I am shielded by God's power! Amen!
When Peter says, "Dear friends, I urge you, as aliens and strangers in the world [because we are saved], to abstain from sinful desires, which war against your soul..." He is not talking about a "war" as in mortal conflict where one can lose, he is speaking of how sin gives us a hard time or hard way to live. Those in Christ cannot lose against sin ever again, but that does not mean we won't have our daily struggles to avoid sinning.
In all this particular blog, I hear two conflicting messages, one that says you are saved, and one that says you can lose that saving grace that Jesus gave you if you sin. This just is not so!
You are trying to deliver the same message to the saved as the unsaved and you cannot do that! There are two groups there. Preach the Good News of Jesus Christ to the unsaved and/or preach how to be a stronger Christian to the saved.
Nick
Thanks to all for commenting, but I just don't get why there's so much animosity whenever we do studies on this subject especially from my fellow Christians.
And why are all the replies here light on Scriptural evidence to support a position? Yet, I'm the one who's "wrong" and giving "my opinion" and "my interpretation" of the Bible. I'm not trying to be contentious, but only saying that if we really are to learn from each other than let's show each other where we feel another brother is wrong using Scripture. I made my case the other night on RNR.
Nick, your closing remarks, that's not what I'm saying at all. Gosh no! Of course not! God forbid! This entire post is addressed to those people who call themselves Christians, but who Jesus turns away that we read about in Matthew 7:22-23 (with some things that a non-believer can benefit from as well).
The entire study I presented the other night on RNR is overflowing with a verse-by-verse, passage-by-passage, chapter-by-chapter readings that speak to these issues. I provided more than enough Biblical evidence to support this position. If you disagree, then please refute those specific verses using other Scripture (because the Bible interprets the Bible).
Otherwise, we're all wasting valuable time when there's so much we could be doing to produce lasting fruit for the Lord.
Also, when we preach the Gospel the issue is not about delivering a message of "happiness" or "a better life in this world" or even "the world to come", but it's ENTIRELY a issue about "the presence of sin" and "righteousness" and how the Lord "deals with sin" if we do not repent.
I'm sorry, but we just fundamentally disagree on all of this as evidenced by your statement that it "causes non-Christians to walk away" because that flies in the face of all the evidence from Scripture about the Sovereignty of God and how He chose the Elect in eternity past. My point is that if they're walking away, then MAYBE they were never called and/or drawn to God in the first place.
Lastly, in order to preach the Gospel of Grace (the "Good News of Jesus Christ") as you pointed out, you need to preach about sin and show people their depraved state and desperate need for grace from the Savior.
By The Grace Of God,
Jeff ("JRed")
Love it when you say you "I won't offer up any commentary on this passage" and yet you add your disclaimer "Emphasis Mine". That IS your commentary and then directly below it you offer more of your commentary. Come on Jeff!!! Love you like a brother but I am going to call you out on that one! I don't blame you for have a commentary or even offering your opinion, (many times I love your opinion and it makes me think), but lets not try to sugar coat this. You did indeed offer up a commentary on that passage!
I am not trying to tear you down by any means or attempt to discredit you or make you look bad. I love you and do not want it to appear that way, but if you are going to stand up and preach be prepared to be held to the truth.
By the way, I don't believe this passage has ANYTHING to do with "this [being] a fulfillment of the prophesied Apostasy (i.e. "falling away").
Nick
Nick,
This is bordering on absurd my friend.
I write "emphasis mine" because I respect the text as God's divine and holy Word, and if I'm trying to show people how things MIGHT connect with a particular verse I normally highlight the part that's relevant.
My writing "emphasis mine" is a show of respect and an attempt to make it clear to people (who maybe aren't reading their Bible, or who aren't familiar with a certain verse) that that specific verse, or those specific words from a verse, aren't bolded in the actual (or any) translation of the Bible.
Nick, I really don't understand your criticism lately, but I will take it to the Lord in prayer in case He is trying to speak to me through you.
Still, I go out of my way in each and every post to make it crystal clear when something is MY SPECULATION, or when I think something COULD/MIGHT HAPPEN. When it comes to studies of various topics like this one I try to use what the Word of God actually says. I didn't just write an entire post based on what "I thought" about this issue. I tried to back it up with the relevant verses for others to see.
Also, so this is all about just another brother in Christ "testing" me, or "putting me through training" because I've revealed that I'm pursuing ministry, huh? Ok. Thanks...I think? It saddens me in a way.
Look, I don't mind someone like you disagreeing with me, but if the Bible is used to interpret the Bible, and we know it doesn't contradict itself, then let's engage in a "debate" in that manner.
Refute my position(s) using the Bible and actual verses/passages and teach me the truth if you believe I'm in error instead of simply telling me what you think in your own words. I mean, if you say you really care about me and my spiritual condition, then wouldn't that be more productive than this?
Even so, I'll take everything you had to say under prayerful consideration then. Thank you my brother.
By The Grace Of God,
Jeff ("JRed")
Nick, in love get your own blog site and do it YOUR way.
-STK
Thank you Jeff for being understanding. I'm not out to get anyone nor am I about debating with anyone or even testing anyone (I never said that was what it was about so I am confused with you saying that). Fact is, I can only say I felt compelled to look in and again compelled to comment on the things I did. I can say yes, please do take it to the Lord. Do not rest on what I say. I did feel very conflicted with what you were saying about being Sanctified and the false convert stuff as well as I got Spiritually uneasy with how you spoke about how Christians should outwardly be distinguished (not that we shouldn't be, but the manner in which you spoke struck a spiritual nerve if you will). I hope you understand that.
I do feel you do need to grow, as I also hope to do. I do not want to cause you problems, nor do I want to come here simply to debate you. In fact, I feel what ever message I was to convey has been done.
As for STK, I am not about doing it "my" way. God is not a Burger King. If God wants me to get a blog, I am sure he will let me know. Thanks for the love brother.
For Jeff: In the future if the Lord so directs or moves me, I will comment, but please do not take it as a personal attack as it is not.
Love to all :^)
Nick
Here's the thing Nick. I can tell you have a true heart for the Lord. The fact of the matter is we are living in a STRANGE time when those who have a heart for the Lord are faced with fragmented and compartmentalised segments of scripture and prophesy.
ie) what is Gog and Magog and when will it begin.
- the rapture?
- the tribulation?
on and on.
We need to pull together and hold fast and above all WATCH! The battle is already won, we just need to make sure we understand the truth of Jesus that sets us free. JESUS!
Peace!
-STK
Nick, in regards to your comment"its not about the bible and sinning and living like a christian, its about sharing the love of Jesus and getting people saved by accepting Jesus in there heart"....a person doesn't get saved just by ACCEPTING Jesus in their hearts. They have to first be convinced of their need for a savior.
They have to realize that they are SINNERS.(All have sinned and come short of the glory of God)Rom.3:23That they need to repent,(Jesus said..."repent ye and believe the gospel)"Mark 1:15 and then ask God for forgivness.(ask and it shall be given you, seek and ye shall find, knock,and it shall be opened unto you)Matt.7:7 yes ,they need to know "how horrible sinning is" and they won't "get the spirit of God in their hearts first".
And to Rob,
MORE preachers need to be Anti-gay,anti-liars ,anti-murderers,..........ANTI-SIN!!!!!!
too many preachers now days are preaching to much about love and not enough about sin.
Loving our neighbors is a good thing but it won't get them to heaven.Loving our enemies is a good thing too but it won't get them to heaven.They have to be convinced that they are sinners.
Jeff, you are absolutly right, we should use the bible to interpret the bible.
Ann
A quick word to Jeff, as well as my brothers and sisters in Christ. We know that there are those who look like sheep but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
I frequently visit this blog as well as miss cumbey's "my perspective." Constance has, for months now, seen a great increase in the number of people who come onto her blog and just try to cause separation and frustration amongst a usually unified and supportive body.
Beware. These impostors will not come with harsh words and direct attacks. Rather, they will quote scripture, say they are loving, and nitpick little things here and there to bring doubt and anger.
How can we know if someone is genuine or not? Why not judge them according to their fruit? If someone is consistently posting things that communicate frustration, doubt, condescension, or contempt, we should write them off as a distraction. To the rest of the posters here who do much to stimulate my critical thinking and raise awareness I thank you.
And a special thanks to Jeff. What you do does not go unappreciated, and the amount of time and work you put into your research does not go unnoticed. I will pray for the Lord to strengthen you.
Have a nice sunday guys. :)
God bless you Lo! Thank you for that gentle, sober, CHRISTIAN reminder for all of us (myself definitely included!) about how we are to act and respond to what we view in the world around us.
Your Brother In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
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