12/22/2010 02:21:00 PM
Jeffrey K Radt ("JRed")
Ready for a long one? Gosh, I just have so much to say about this subject after researching and writing this piece for the past 7-10 days that I'm bursting at the seams over here! HA
I'll apologize in advance because I know I'm bound to start to ramble and repeat myself several times before we're through. As mentioned, I've been working on this Bible study/commentary for the last 7-10 days while also trying to battle a cold/flu/sinus condition that just won't go away. Not easy. Then again, it's never by my power alone, but by His.
I'll apologize in advance because I know I'm bound to start to ramble and repeat myself several times before we're through. As mentioned, I've been working on this Bible study/commentary for the last 7-10 days while also trying to battle a cold/flu/sinus condition that just won't go away. Not easy. Then again, it's never by my power alone, but by His.
Here's another "controversial" one for all of my dear brothers and sisters in Christ today. You should know that I don't mean to be "combative", "debatable", or "divisive" at all. I mean to be a "Berean" in pursuit of the truth no matter where it takes me. I can admit that I never used to be this way (although I should've been), and while I'm still learning what it means to be a Berean, and how I'm supposed to fulfill that instruction, I thank God for what He has done (what He is doing). So, needless to say, this lengthy study is as much for me as it is for any of you.
If you're anything like me, then you're interested in dialoguing with other Christian adults who are maturing in their faith knowing you'll be able to have a mature conversation about an emotionally charged topic without resorting to attitudes, comments, and tactics that are not representative of our shared faith. I'm confident that this community can preserve that same kind of environment even for a subject like this.
The "War For Christmas" has taken on an entirely different meaning this year for me. No longer is it a debate with non-believers about the importance of celebrating Christ-centered holiday each year in this country, but now it's become a debate with believers about the very same thing. The irony of ironies, isn't it?
Furthermore, the debate within myself has been brutal too! Bottom line? I'm a Christian and I'm still going to celebrate Christmas this year for some very specific reasons that I will make known to you (although I'm open to the possibility that I could be wrong in my assessment of things, which means I'm still open to foregoing the festivities next year).
Personally, I wholeheartedly believe that this ENTIRE debate exists because of two primary forces that are at odds with one another. They're the same two reasons why contemporary Christianity finds itself in the state that it's in today, and they're the same two forces we've been trying to call attention to with great urgency for the last 3-4 months now.
One is a complete ignorance and misunderstanding about what the Bible tells us about the Sovereignty of God, and the other is sheer and utter hypocrisy that is bordering on the realm of making some Christians become like Pharisees. But I'm getting ahead of myself.
Originally, I was going to wait until Christmas Eve to publish this and just leave it up as the lead post on Christmas Day and the day after, but since this week is likely to be so hectic for all of us (and because this is such a critical issue and such a long post) I decided to publish it now instead and give you some time to actually digest all of its content in the coming days. Perhaps I'll break this up into two separate podcasts that I'll record so that you can participate in the discussion yourself and get to hear the tone of my voice because that always helps.
I almost wanted to write this up as our next installment in the "Apostasy?" series because as I worked my way through this material in the past week it became evident to me that that's really what this seems to be -- a possible falling away from our faith.
I guess it shouldn't be too surprising that in an "Age of Deception", where "exposing lies" and "truth-telling" is the goal, we've grown so accustomed to being suspicious of everyone and everything that some of that suspicion has been inadvertently cast upon our cherished faith.
"What!?! Gosh no!" Yes, sadly, I'm afraid that seems to be the case. I could be wrong, and you have every right to disagree we me when we're through, but it looks like we should score one point for Satan and his loyal minions. No, we definitely didn't want that to happen, but it has. I'm just surprised I almost fell for it myself. Thank God He didn't let me!
To reiterate, I must openly state at the outset that this will be a "controversial" piece. So be it. Generally, we never shy away from having the "difficult" and "uncomfortable" conversations and today will be no exception.
Those of you who think you know where I might be going with this subject might want to read carefully and slowly because you might be a little surprised (if you aren't surprised already by the stance I took about my feelings regarding Christmas at the beginning of this piece).
Some of you might even disagree with my analysis here today and think I'm wrong to conclude that this is what has actually happened to contemporary Christianity -- that the deception is believing that "we are collectively exposing the deception of Christmas", and we are doing that to the detriment of worshipping our Lord and Savior's birth.
All I ask is that you prayerfully consider what I'm about to present in full before you cast judgment. Nothing more, nothing less.
THE REASONS FOR THIS WAR OVER CHRISTMAS
Once again, I'm embarrassed by our own lack of Biblical knowledge mainly because we're self-professing Christians. I'll speak for myself when I tell you that it never ceases to amaze me how much different my understanding about things has been when compared to what the Bible actually says and teaches us.
Praise the Lord for giving me a brain that still works, for teaching me how to think critically, and for putting it on my heart to examine my entrenched positions with an open mind in obedience and in accordance with His Word...
2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV) Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Acts 17:11 (KJV) These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
Proverbs 12:1 (KJV) Whoso loveth instruction loveth knowledge: but he that hateth reproof [is] brutish.
Seriously, I am so thankful that He took me by the hand and led me to explore this annual, heated debate more closely than I ever had before and regardless of how uncomfortable it might make me feel when He exposed the kinds of errors that existed in my thinking about this topic.
Let's see, so I wrote a controversial commentary on Halloween about how I didn't take any part in acknowledging that Satanic high holy day, wrote a controversial collection of posts published on Thanksgiving Day that explored the history of this nation, and now I suppose it's time to say something about Christmas.
Should Bible believing Christians celebrate Christmas? If not, then why not? If so, then how should we celebrate Christmas? Furthermore, when do we celebrate Christmas? Most importantly, what does the Bible tell us? Those are the questions.
These are questions of concern for many sincere believers. In fact, many believers dislike the holiday to the point where they have refused to celebrate it at all. A number of reasons are given, and while I might agree with some of their concerns and some of the reasons offered against the observance of Christmas, it might shock you to learn that I would not necessarily agree with all of their conclusions. More on that a little later.
There is a great debate going on right now as to whether or not we should even engage in any kind of celebration of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ's birth. In fact, this season seems to be filled with more arguments about this than ever before. Here is the view I'm hearing, reading, and seeing a lot of this year, which I'm sure you all know so well by now...
The Origin Of Christmas And Its Traditions (Part 1)
The Origin Of Christmas And Its Traditions (Part 2)
The Origin Of Christmas And Its Traditions (Part 3)
Again, nothing really new since we're all quite familiar with what it means to apply the commands given to us in Ephesians 5:11 and Matthew 10:16.
It's tough to argue with a documentary like that, isn't it? Plus, I also saw this documentary from The History Channel on Christmas from a secular perspective that adds even more fuel to the fire...
Christmas unWrapped (Part 1)
Christmas unWrapped (Part 2)
Christmas unWrapped (Part 3)
Christmas unWrapped (Part 4)
Christmas unWrapped (Part 5)
Visit any Christian blog or website this week and you'll probably find a majority of them seeking to expose the "damnable heresies and lies" associated with Christmas. While it's great to see so many people attempting to apply Ephesians 5:11 and Matthew 10:16 like we so often do here at LUF, I've noticed that it's becoming sort of like a badge of honor, or a visible sign that you're "part of the club" of believers who are willing to wield the Word like a club to beat other believers over the head and into submission. Is that Christian-like?
Look, I'm not going to dispute any of the above information (I included it for a reason) or try to suggest that it's not factual. It is. What are some of those facts for anyone who didn't take the time to watch any of the video clips that most Christians cite when making the case AGAINST celebrating Christmas? To name just a few...
Those are some of the many points traditionally raised in this discussion. For me, I've tended to focus on a few of them the past few years because they really bothered me.
Look, I'm not going to dispute any of the above information (I included it for a reason) or try to suggest that it's not factual. It is. What are some of those facts for anyone who didn't take the time to watch any of the video clips that most Christians cite when making the case AGAINST celebrating Christmas? To name just a few...
> Jesus Christ really wasn't born in December; Uncertainty about the date of His birth (September?)
> "Christmas" is "Christ's Mass", which is a direct reference to the Roman Catholic heresy of mass
> A lot of "white lies" (what most people think are "acceptable lies") connected to Christmas -- both religious and secular
> Christmas is commercialized and materialistic, and it promotes consumption
> Christmas promotes a "Works Based Theology" ("I better do good things or else Santa won't bring me anything...")
> Scripture doesn't clearly authorize it; Scripture seems to forbid it
> Contemporary Christmas traditions are rooted in paganism or come to us from the Roman Catholic Church, which we all know is an idolatrous religious system these days (i.e. Christmas means "Christ's Mass").
> The Apostles and early church fathers did not celebrate Christmas, the Puritans rejected Christmas, Charles Spurgeon was opposed to Christmas, and more recently A.W. Pink voiced his opposition to Christmas.
> I also know that it was recently reported that 98.7% of ABC, CBS, and NBC evening newscasts excluded mention of Jesus Christ during their Christmas coverage each night. In fact, it was a 2-year study that revealed "Two years of Christmas coverage on three networks produced a scant 1.3 percent of stories mentioning the deity."
Those are some of the many points traditionally raised in this discussion. For me, I've tended to focus on a few of them the past few years because they really bothered me.
"Thou shalt not covet...", right? As a father of two young children, I'm not sure how my wife and I are to instill a compassion in our children for the least of these, as Jesus would have us do, yet engage in gross self-indulgence on December 25th under the guise of celebrating the birth of the One who was poor in this life and instructed us to give up all for Him, including our very lives.
How do we do that? We can't unless we scale way back on the "self-indulgence" part. We're trying to be creative. One idea is to CUT WAY BACK on presents this year and also tell family members and friends to do the same. Another is to get them involved in charitable acts the entire month of December (and beyond) for those less fortunate to foster a spirit of giving instead of a spirit of consuming. Another idea is that once all the presents have been opened we ask Luke and Amelia to each pick out one of their new gifts that they just received that they would like to give to another little boy and girl who did not get anything for Christmas. Is that acceptable? Is that enough? Or is that akin to trying to "bribe" God?
The other notable concern I have is the lying. Think about what it's like when they (or you) open a present and it's something that doesn't interest them (you). What do we do? We tell them to show appreciation? Is that "teaching them to be grateful for all things" or is it "asking our children to be fake and to lie" because one is definitely more noble than the other.
If it's the latter, than for most Christian parents this is one of the few times we accept (and expect) lies from our children. It’s also one of the few times we feel it’s all right to lie to those same children about Santa Claus, elves, and flying reindeer. Yet, we then expect our children to believe what we tell them about The Flood, the Parting of the Red Sea, Jonah and the Whale, and a Resurrected Savior, and we’re shocked if they don’t. Revelation 21:8 warns us about what happens to liars.
Speaking of lies, I'm also convicted when I think about us "Christians" who pat themselves on the back when we give, give, give to the needy throughout the month of December, but are nowhere to be found the other 11 months of the year. Worse, what about those of us who only attend church services for Christmas and Easter? Despite what we know to be true about the decay of the church, isn't fellowship with believers and worship of our God still important to us (and what God desires from us too)?
I share all of that with you to show you that I fully understand the problems that most of you have with this holiday each year because I feel the same way. To be perfectly blunt about it, however, aside from those obvious challenges in how to handle this holiday with our kids, the problem I've had in trying to figure out where God wants me to stand on this subject is when I would try to reconcile two passages in particular.
The Bible permits us to eat food sacrificed to idols (1 Corinthians 8:1-13), but would not permit us to partake in pagan practices and incorporate them into the Christian’s life and practice (Ephesians 5:11). Am I wrong to associate those two passages with each other and connect them to this discussion?
The other key passage for me (as for many of you probably) is the one that speaks out against the Christmas Tree is found in the Book of Jeremiah...
Can't argue with that. It's pretty straight-forward as it seems to conjure up images in our minds of modern day Christmas decorating by way of the Christmas Tree. Or is it?
THE MORE I PRAY, READ, AND STUDY, THE MORE I WONDER...
To end with verse 4 would make us guilty of doing the very thing that we're always trying to speak out against -- ripping verses out of context to support our stance on an issue. Let's be like Bereans here, shall we?
Please hear me out because the very next verse, verse 5, expounds upon this for us...
My dear friends, the Christmas Tree is definitely not in view in Jeremiah 10. Jeremiah is addressing the sin of the people who are whoring after the gods that surround them. They were taking a tree, carving it up and decorating that idol for the purpose of worshiping it. Christmas Trees would not have even been in the mind of Jeremiah for Christ Himself had not come.
If you don't want to include a Christmas Tree in your holiday celebration that's fine, but you cannot use these verses in their proper context as your reason, or to chastise your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who have a tree in their home right now. Speaking for myself, it's just a decoration and not an object of worship. How is it any different from me placing a painting on my wall, or my wife putting a candle on our coffee table? You just can't make that deduction after performing the proper exegesis here.
It was at this point that I decided to approach this topic from the unpopular angle just to see what might be revealed (if anything).
This Jeremiah 10 business is just one small reason why I personally do not believe that Christmas is as "cut-and-dry" as Halloween is let's say. After all, we're talking about the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ on one hand, versus the celebration of all things Satanic on the other. Why can't we see that critical difference?
Before I run with that line of thought, here's another perspective on this issue that Joe Ortiz posted on his Facebook page the other day. It's in defense of Christians who want to celebrate Christ's birth during Christmas...
Should We Celebrate Christmas?
That video certainly gives us a good overview, and something to think about I think in counterbalance to this debate, but I want to include a few more videos for this discussion that hone in on the specifics a little bit...
The "Myths" About The Myths Of Christmas (Part 1)
The "Myths" About The Myths Of Christmas (Part 2)
Wow! That's quite the presentation. Now, it was at this point in my studies when I began to wonder if we have taken Ephesians 5:11 and Matthew 10:16 too much to heart.
What I mean to say is that I wondered why it is that we seem to know all the demonic, occult, pagan, Satanic things associated with this time of year as if we are experts on the subject (and all in the name of "exposing the darkness of deceit"), but we don't seem to possess the same kind of knowledge when it comes to the holy, religious, redeeming, and spiritual aspects associated with this time of year? Why is that? Doesn't that concern you? It concerned me enough to continuing pursuing this particular path even if it's an unpopular one these days.
"Come on Jeff! Get real! Get with it! There are no 'holy, religious, redeeming, spiritual' things about this holiday! None!" Oh really? Are you sure about that my dear friend?
For me, it was good to be reminded of the Biblical and historical significance of Kislev -- December 25th, 164. Why do we always ignore that truth, but run to the demonic, occult, pagan, and Satanic truths instead?
Like I said earlier, I'm more inclined to at least have this discussion because I don't believe it's as much of an open-and-shut-case as most people think that it is (like Halloween is, for example).
For instance, I want to go back to the Christmas Tree again. We all know from watching the videos embedded above how pagan practices (Satanic rituals actually) utilized what we would commonly call a version of a Christmas Tree as being central to their "Winter Solstice" festivals. What we might not know, however, is that the use of the Christmas Tree by Christians during this time of year also has a connection going back to Martin Luther.
I read that Martin Luther began the tradition of decorating trees to celebrate Christmas. One crisp Christmas Eve, around the year 1500, he was walking through snow-covered woods and was struck by the beauty of a group of small Evergreens. Their branches, dusted with snow, shimmered in the moonlight, and he could see a few stars in the night sky through the branches.
The experience made him marvel not only at the profound implications of Jesus Christ's birth on the night before the day when Christians celebrated it, but also forced him to marvel at God's splendid creation all around him. When he got home, he set up a little fir tree indoors, decorated it with candles that he lighted in honor of Christ's birth, all so that so he could share the story of his experience with his family.
Yes, non-believers have used a version of a traditional "Christmas Tree" in their unholy religious practices long before the time of Christ. Does that mean that Martin Luther was wrong to do what he did? Should he never have put up that tree, decorated it to recreate his experience, or told his family about what it was that caused him to praise and worship the Creator that night? I mean, the Christmas Tree itself wasn't being worshipped as an idol. It was merely being used as a prop that would help Luther tell his story that night.
Clearly, there are some positive, redeeming aspects connected to the celebration of Christmas despite the difficulties. Furthermore, allow me to provide you with a few Biblical reasons why I think WE SHOULD CELEBRATE the birth of Jesus Christ...
I believe that all of that is spot on. I really do.
I mean, absolutely central to our cherished and shared faith is the deity of Jesus Christ and His virgin, sinless birth into this world as a "God Man" who would be our Lord and Savior. It makes perfect sense to celebrate this fundamental truth each year because the alternative is losing the proper modicum of respect for, and losing sight of, Him and what He did for us.
Besides, don't we have enough of that in contemporary Christianity today already -- a lack of respect? Folks, this is why any Bible study connected with the "Sovereignty of God" is such a controversial issue today within the Body of Christ. We've lost the proper respect for our Lord to the point where a verse like Psalm 111:10 that says, "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever" is being twisted to the point where the word "fear" is now being interpreted by many of you to mean "respect" or something.
What do you think though? Should Christians celebrate Christmas, celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, in some fashion? You already know what I think. Still, let's press on.
MAKING A CASE FOR CHRISTIANS TO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS
Yes, of course, it goes without saying that the commemoration of the birth of Christ should not be about Christmas Trees, Christmas Decorations, Christmas Cookies, "Getting Into The Christmas Spirit", Mistletoe, Runaway Materialism, Man Worship (Saint Nicholas/Santa Claus), or Wreaths.
As exhaustively mentioned, the sad reality is that many ancient pagan customs and traditions that existed long before Christianity have crept in to our worship of Jesus Christ's birth and infected it to this very day. It would behoove Christians to understand these demonic customs and their origins. No one's disputing that; certainly not me. I see far too many people celebrating worldly things, themselves, and others during this time of year rather than the One who is the reason for the season. That's a major problem folks.
I also fully admit that there’s no debating that Roman Catholic traditions and pagan practices are rife throughout the holiday of Christmas. You know how I feel about Catholicism and the attempts I've made here on LUF and through various podcasts to open people's eyes to that counterfeit religion.
But dare I say that instituting December 25th as a Christian holiday (even if it was done under false pretenses) was maybe the one good thing to come from that vile institution despite the fact that everything from the name of the holiday ("Christ Mass") to the Yule Log, for example, has more to do with false religions than with Christianity?
I'm just asking for reasons that will become fully known in a moment. Yes, Romanism and paganism is rampant in this holiday, but it doesn't have to be.
Please hear me out on this because I think there's a very significant reason why we might not want to be so quick to shun all things related to Christmas, or to attack our fellow brothers and sisters like me who do want to celebrate Christ's birth this week. May I remind you that to suggest that a person is in some way in danger of Hell fire because they esteem one holiday over another is not Biblical anyway (Romans 14:5-6).
Let me quickly hit the Rest Button here first. If I had to guess at the two most common reasons why Christians suggest that we SHOULDN'T be celebrating Christmas in any fashion, then I would surmise that these would be it...
That's all true. Again, I'm not disputing that at all. However, I look at those two reasons not as proof as to why we SHOULDN'T celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, but why we maybe SHOULD celebrate it. Please allow me to explain as this is the heart of the matter for me.
For the past several months, we've spent a lot of time examining what it means to call God "sovereign" as the Scriptures tell it. As students of end times Bible prophecy, we recognize how there are those in numerous power structures around the world who are either wittingly or unwittingly serving Satan by their actions. Yet, we never for a single second would suggest that any of that is occurring free and separate from God's prophetic timeline for humanity. God uses us (His creation) as His human instruments much like He used human instruments as His pen to write the divinely inspired Scriptures. We might also want to think about the places where we read about God hardening the hearts of people.
So why are we ok with applying God's sovereign control to some things, but not to others? Once again, this whole controversy seems to come back to the Sovereignty of God. Because we've lost the proper understanding of our relationship to God (Psalm 111:10), we have trouble properly understanding these topics. That's my contention here.
First and foremost, why didn't Christians commemorate the birth of Jesus prior to the 4th Century? We don't know, but is an argument from silence really sufficient here? If so, then how do we reconcile that with the fact that words like "Trinity" and "Rapture" are not found anywhere in the text even though we embrace them? It's because they are clearly implied by the Word of God. So, to say that the Apostles didn't celebrate Jesus' birth because they didn't regard it as being important is foolish. Earlier, we looked at all the verses of Scripture that tell us His birth was worshipped, which I believe implies that it's ok to celebrate it in some way, shape, or form.
I submit to you that perhaps -- just perhaps -- it wasn't until they started to grasp the Lord's sovereign hand in life that the early church began to recognize that they had failed to follow His Word's lead.
How do we do that? We can't unless we scale way back on the "self-indulgence" part. We're trying to be creative. One idea is to CUT WAY BACK on presents this year and also tell family members and friends to do the same. Another is to get them involved in charitable acts the entire month of December (and beyond) for those less fortunate to foster a spirit of giving instead of a spirit of consuming. Another idea is that once all the presents have been opened we ask Luke and Amelia to each pick out one of their new gifts that they just received that they would like to give to another little boy and girl who did not get anything for Christmas. Is that acceptable? Is that enough? Or is that akin to trying to "bribe" God?
The other notable concern I have is the lying. Think about what it's like when they (or you) open a present and it's something that doesn't interest them (you). What do we do? We tell them to show appreciation? Is that "teaching them to be grateful for all things" or is it "asking our children to be fake and to lie" because one is definitely more noble than the other.
If it's the latter, than for most Christian parents this is one of the few times we accept (and expect) lies from our children. It’s also one of the few times we feel it’s all right to lie to those same children about Santa Claus, elves, and flying reindeer. Yet, we then expect our children to believe what we tell them about The Flood, the Parting of the Red Sea, Jonah and the Whale, and a Resurrected Savior, and we’re shocked if they don’t. Revelation 21:8 warns us about what happens to liars.
Speaking of lies, I'm also convicted when I think about us "Christians" who pat themselves on the back when we give, give, give to the needy throughout the month of December, but are nowhere to be found the other 11 months of the year. Worse, what about those of us who only attend church services for Christmas and Easter? Despite what we know to be true about the decay of the church, isn't fellowship with believers and worship of our God still important to us (and what God desires from us too)?
I share all of that with you to show you that I fully understand the problems that most of you have with this holiday each year because I feel the same way. To be perfectly blunt about it, however, aside from those obvious challenges in how to handle this holiday with our kids, the problem I've had in trying to figure out where God wants me to stand on this subject is when I would try to reconcile two passages in particular.
The Bible permits us to eat food sacrificed to idols (1 Corinthians 8:1-13), but would not permit us to partake in pagan practices and incorporate them into the Christian’s life and practice (Ephesians 5:11). Am I wrong to associate those two passages with each other and connect them to this discussion?
The other key passage for me (as for many of you probably) is the one that speaks out against the Christmas Tree is found in the Book of Jeremiah...
Jeremiah 10:3-4 (KJV) For the customs of the people [are] vain: for [one] cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Can't argue with that. It's pretty straight-forward as it seems to conjure up images in our minds of modern day Christmas decorating by way of the Christmas Tree. Or is it?
THE MORE I PRAY, READ, AND STUDY, THE MORE I WONDER...
To end with verse 4 would make us guilty of doing the very thing that we're always trying to speak out against -- ripping verses out of context to support our stance on an issue. Let's be like Bereans here, shall we?
Please hear me out because the very next verse, verse 5, expounds upon this for us...
Jeremiah 10:5 (KJV) They [are] upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also [is it] in them to do good.
Jeremiah 10:5 (NIV) Like a scarecrow in a melon patch, their idols cannot speak; they must be carried because they cannot walk. Do not fear them; they can do no harm nor can they do any good."
My dear friends, the Christmas Tree is definitely not in view in Jeremiah 10. Jeremiah is addressing the sin of the people who are whoring after the gods that surround them. They were taking a tree, carving it up and decorating that idol for the purpose of worshiping it. Christmas Trees would not have even been in the mind of Jeremiah for Christ Himself had not come.
If you don't want to include a Christmas Tree in your holiday celebration that's fine, but you cannot use these verses in their proper context as your reason, or to chastise your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ who have a tree in their home right now. Speaking for myself, it's just a decoration and not an object of worship. How is it any different from me placing a painting on my wall, or my wife putting a candle on our coffee table? You just can't make that deduction after performing the proper exegesis here.
It was at this point that I decided to approach this topic from the unpopular angle just to see what might be revealed (if anything).
This Jeremiah 10 business is just one small reason why I personally do not believe that Christmas is as "cut-and-dry" as Halloween is let's say. After all, we're talking about the celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ on one hand, versus the celebration of all things Satanic on the other. Why can't we see that critical difference?
Before I run with that line of thought, here's another perspective on this issue that Joe Ortiz posted on his Facebook page the other day. It's in defense of Christians who want to celebrate Christ's birth during Christmas...
Should We Celebrate Christmas?
That video certainly gives us a good overview, and something to think about I think in counterbalance to this debate, but I want to include a few more videos for this discussion that hone in on the specifics a little bit...
The "Myths" About The Myths Of Christmas (Part 1)
The "Myths" About The Myths Of Christmas (Part 2)
Wow! That's quite the presentation. Now, it was at this point in my studies when I began to wonder if we have taken Ephesians 5:11 and Matthew 10:16 too much to heart.
What I mean to say is that I wondered why it is that we seem to know all the demonic, occult, pagan, Satanic things associated with this time of year as if we are experts on the subject (and all in the name of "exposing the darkness of deceit"), but we don't seem to possess the same kind of knowledge when it comes to the holy, religious, redeeming, and spiritual aspects associated with this time of year? Why is that? Doesn't that concern you? It concerned me enough to continuing pursuing this particular path even if it's an unpopular one these days.
"Come on Jeff! Get real! Get with it! There are no 'holy, religious, redeeming, spiritual' things about this holiday! None!" Oh really? Are you sure about that my dear friend?
For me, it was good to be reminded of the Biblical and historical significance of Kislev -- December 25th, 164. Why do we always ignore that truth, but run to the demonic, occult, pagan, and Satanic truths instead?
Like I said earlier, I'm more inclined to at least have this discussion because I don't believe it's as much of an open-and-shut-case as most people think that it is (like Halloween is, for example).
For instance, I want to go back to the Christmas Tree again. We all know from watching the videos embedded above how pagan practices (Satanic rituals actually) utilized what we would commonly call a version of a Christmas Tree as being central to their "Winter Solstice" festivals. What we might not know, however, is that the use of the Christmas Tree by Christians during this time of year also has a connection going back to Martin Luther.
I read that Martin Luther began the tradition of decorating trees to celebrate Christmas. One crisp Christmas Eve, around the year 1500, he was walking through snow-covered woods and was struck by the beauty of a group of small Evergreens. Their branches, dusted with snow, shimmered in the moonlight, and he could see a few stars in the night sky through the branches.
The experience made him marvel not only at the profound implications of Jesus Christ's birth on the night before the day when Christians celebrated it, but also forced him to marvel at God's splendid creation all around him. When he got home, he set up a little fir tree indoors, decorated it with candles that he lighted in honor of Christ's birth, all so that so he could share the story of his experience with his family.
Yes, non-believers have used a version of a traditional "Christmas Tree" in their unholy religious practices long before the time of Christ. Does that mean that Martin Luther was wrong to do what he did? Should he never have put up that tree, decorated it to recreate his experience, or told his family about what it was that caused him to praise and worship the Creator that night? I mean, the Christmas Tree itself wasn't being worshipped as an idol. It was merely being used as a prop that would help Luther tell his story that night.
Clearly, there are some positive, redeeming aspects connected to the celebration of Christmas despite the difficulties. Furthermore, allow me to provide you with a few Biblical reasons why I think WE SHOULD CELEBRATE the birth of Jesus Christ...
> THE BIRTH OF JESUS CHRIST IS ABSOLUTELY FUNDAMENTAL TO OUR FAITH (IF HE WAS NEVER BORN, THEN WE WOULDN'T EVEN BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION TODAY)
> THE OLD TESTAMENT CELEBRATES IT
Isaiah 7:14 (KJV) Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isaiah 9:6 (KJV) For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
> THE FIRST PAGE OF THE NEW TESTAMENT CELEBRATES IT
Matthew 1:21-23 (KJV) And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
> ALL FOUR GOSPELS CELEBRATE IT (THAT IS WHY THEY WERE WRITTEN!)
> MATTHEW AND LUKE EACH DEVOTE 2 CHAPTERS TO THE EVENT
> JOHN CELEBRATES THE WORD BECOMING FLESH AND DWELLING AMONG US
> THE AUTHOR OF HEBREWS CELEBRATES IT
Hebrews 1:6 (KJV) And again, when he bringeth in the first begotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
> PAUL CELEBRATES IT AND DECLARES IT TO BE CENTRAL TO THE GOSPEL MESSAGE
Galatians 4:4-5 (KJV) But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
1 Corinthians 15:47-49 (KJV) The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven. As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
> THE ANGELS CELEBRATED IT
> THE SHEPHERDS CELEBRATED IT
> THE WISE MEN CELEBRATED IT
> IT IS THE MOST CELEBRATED SINGULAR EVENT IN THE ENTIRE BIBLE
I believe that all of that is spot on. I really do.
I mean, absolutely central to our cherished and shared faith is the deity of Jesus Christ and His virgin, sinless birth into this world as a "God Man" who would be our Lord and Savior. It makes perfect sense to celebrate this fundamental truth each year because the alternative is losing the proper modicum of respect for, and losing sight of, Him and what He did for us.
Besides, don't we have enough of that in contemporary Christianity today already -- a lack of respect? Folks, this is why any Bible study connected with the "Sovereignty of God" is such a controversial issue today within the Body of Christ. We've lost the proper respect for our Lord to the point where a verse like Psalm 111:10 that says, "The fear of the LORD [is] the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do [his commandments]: his praise endureth for ever" is being twisted to the point where the word "fear" is now being interpreted by many of you to mean "respect" or something.
What do you think though? Should Christians celebrate Christmas, celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, in some fashion? You already know what I think. Still, let's press on.
MAKING A CASE FOR CHRISTIANS TO CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS
Yes, of course, it goes without saying that the commemoration of the birth of Christ should not be about Christmas Trees, Christmas Decorations, Christmas Cookies, "Getting Into The Christmas Spirit", Mistletoe, Runaway Materialism, Man Worship (Saint Nicholas/Santa Claus), or Wreaths.
As exhaustively mentioned, the sad reality is that many ancient pagan customs and traditions that existed long before Christianity have crept in to our worship of Jesus Christ's birth and infected it to this very day. It would behoove Christians to understand these demonic customs and their origins. No one's disputing that; certainly not me. I see far too many people celebrating worldly things, themselves, and others during this time of year rather than the One who is the reason for the season. That's a major problem folks.
I also fully admit that there’s no debating that Roman Catholic traditions and pagan practices are rife throughout the holiday of Christmas. You know how I feel about Catholicism and the attempts I've made here on LUF and through various podcasts to open people's eyes to that counterfeit religion.
But dare I say that instituting December 25th as a Christian holiday (even if it was done under false pretenses) was maybe the one good thing to come from that vile institution despite the fact that everything from the name of the holiday ("Christ Mass") to the Yule Log, for example, has more to do with false religions than with Christianity?
I'm just asking for reasons that will become fully known in a moment. Yes, Romanism and paganism is rampant in this holiday, but it doesn't have to be.
Please hear me out on this because I think there's a very significant reason why we might not want to be so quick to shun all things related to Christmas, or to attack our fellow brothers and sisters like me who do want to celebrate Christ's birth this week. May I remind you that to suggest that a person is in some way in danger of Hell fire because they esteem one holiday over another is not Biblical anyway (Romans 14:5-6).
Let me quickly hit the Rest Button here first. If I had to guess at the two most common reasons why Christians suggest that we SHOULDN'T be celebrating Christmas in any fashion, then I would surmise that these would be it...
> The birth of Jesus Christ was not celebrated in the 300+ years prior to the time when the Roman Emperor Constantine declared December 25th a holiday.
> Many pagan gods were worshipped during that time of year long before the Christian era, and it was man (the early church fathers) who made the decision to start the tradition in an attempt to appease the pagans living all around them.
That's all true. Again, I'm not disputing that at all. However, I look at those two reasons not as proof as to why we SHOULDN'T celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, but why we maybe SHOULD celebrate it. Please allow me to explain as this is the heart of the matter for me.
For the past several months, we've spent a lot of time examining what it means to call God "sovereign" as the Scriptures tell it. As students of end times Bible prophecy, we recognize how there are those in numerous power structures around the world who are either wittingly or unwittingly serving Satan by their actions. Yet, we never for a single second would suggest that any of that is occurring free and separate from God's prophetic timeline for humanity. God uses us (His creation) as His human instruments much like He used human instruments as His pen to write the divinely inspired Scriptures. We might also want to think about the places where we read about God hardening the hearts of people.
So why are we ok with applying God's sovereign control to some things, but not to others? Once again, this whole controversy seems to come back to the Sovereignty of God. Because we've lost the proper understanding of our relationship to God (Psalm 111:10), we have trouble properly understanding these topics. That's my contention here.
First and foremost, why didn't Christians commemorate the birth of Jesus prior to the 4th Century? We don't know, but is an argument from silence really sufficient here? If so, then how do we reconcile that with the fact that words like "Trinity" and "Rapture" are not found anywhere in the text even though we embrace them? It's because they are clearly implied by the Word of God. So, to say that the Apostles didn't celebrate Jesus' birth because they didn't regard it as being important is foolish. Earlier, we looked at all the verses of Scripture that tell us His birth was worshipped, which I believe implies that it's ok to celebrate it in some way, shape, or form.
I submit to you that perhaps -- just perhaps -- it wasn't until they started to grasp the Lord's sovereign hand in life that the early church began to recognize that they had failed to follow His Word's lead.
But even if that's not truly the case and it was commemorated under false pretenses by the Roman Catholic Church, that doesn't change what happened, and whatever does or doesn't happen is under complete and total control of our Lord, is it not? Then why are we loosing our perspective when it comes to this issue of Christmas? Why aren't we applying the same truths across the board?
What prompts me to make such a statement? Well, I think the most compelling argument in defense of Christians who do want to celebrate Christmas each year on December 25th (aside from everything that was just presented) is THE RECOGNITION OF OUR SOVEREIGN GOD'S ORCHESTRATING THE CELEBRATION OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST IN LATE DECEMBER, AND AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE PAGAN RELIGIONS CELEBRATED THEIR FALSE GODS (I.E. SATURNALIA), AS A BEAUTIFUL COMMENTARY THAT HE WAS CHOOSING CHRIST, OVER ALL THE OTHER GODS BEING WORSHIPPED AT THE TIME, TO FULFILL HIS PLANS FOR HUMANITY. This argument is underscored (and strengthened) when you consider that He did THE VERY SAME SAME with Jesus' Resurrection, which took place at the same time that the non-believers were celebrating their other false gods during the Spring too.
I mean, it wasn't until the 12th Century, or some 800 years after December 25th was instituted as the Advent date by the Roman Emperor Constantine in the 4th Century, that people began to suggest that he was heavily influenced to do so by pagan customs as opposed to the truth that it was due to the early church fathers. Again, even if you want to dispute that, we MUST NOT REMOVE THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD from this equation just like we wouldn't remove it from any of our studies having to do with these end times and the people who He's using to move us farther along the prophetic timeline today. I'm sorry, but the more I study this topic, the more I prayerfully think about it, the more I'm at peace with the whole thing.
Lastly, the fact that the early church fathers ignored the Scriptures (in the sense that they should've known that Jesus wasn't born in December) and "decided" to institute a holiday that commemorated His birth with already existing pagan customs and practices in honor of false gods shouldn't be pointed to as some kind of "proof" or "Aha! See, I told you! That's why Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas!" kind of statement.
Why? My dear friends, isn't it obvious? GOD IS SOVEREIGN -- NOT MAN! Nothing happens -- nothing -- apart from His perfect timing, and His perfect will, to fulfill His perfect plans for humanity! Ok, so the early church fathers "decided" to set up a tradition that worshipped Jesus Christ each year that would also coincide with the worship of false gods that those all around them were following. You mean to tell me that you believe that they were able to do such a thing apart from God? If God never wanted that to happen it would never have happened.
Doesn't it make much more sense, given what we know about our Lord and His sovereignty, that He allowed such an event to take place so that the message would be clear to us? That message? "I chose Jesus Christ to be the Savior of mankind -- not Satan's false counterfeits!" (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Hebrews 2:10; Ephesians 1:5).
If we would only remember what we read in Exodus 34:14 amongst other places about God being a "jealous God", then I think it all starts to make even much more sense. It seems to have been a brilliantly and divinely executed event for Him to have set up a holiday that celebrates the birth of His Son Jesus Christ to coincide with the various holidays set up by non-believing men and women to celebrate their "saviors" when, in fact, there is only one true Savior.
Personally, this is why I'm coming down on the opposite (and probably unexpected/unpopular) side of this issue unlike my stance in regards to the celebration of Halloween let's say.
See, back in October, the impetus behind my decision to abstain from celebrating Halloween was due to how much of that holiday is antithetical to Biblical Christianity, both for the obvious reasons and the not so obvious reasons.
With Christmas, even though there are truly some things that are antithetical to Biblical Christianity, I pray that I've demonstrated that it's not such an open-and-shut case, and that there's actually more on the side that's in favor of celebrating Christmas than there is on the side that's against it. Remember, we do have freedom and liberty in Christ, do we not?
Freedom in Christ does not exclude us from our responsibilities though. I think a good line of defense is to examine ourselves regularly like we're commanded to (2 Corinthians 13:5) and see if the account recorded for us in the Gospel of Mark applies or not...
Is a celebration of Christmas each year acceptable if we honor Jesus Christ with our hearts and not just our lips, or do these verses tell us that such a scenario is not possible given all the un-Biblical and non-Christian "trappings" associated with Christmas today?
No, it won't be easy, but I believe it should be food for thought, and something we might want to at least try to accomplish. For me, I want to at least try to celebrate His birth. I'm also not saying that my attitude toward Christmas will never change. For all I know, next year I could view things much differently. As for right now, this is the direction I'm leaning in.
HYPOCRITES? PHARISEES? PURISTS? LEGALISTS? OBEDIENT SERVANTS?
I've addressed the issue of the Sovereignty of God and how I believe it is quite relevant to this discussion, but what about that other driving force called hypocrisy? The verses from Mark 7 just a few moments ago kind of allude to the direction I want to go next.
Are those Christians who vehemently object to the views presented in this piece hypocrites, Pharisees, purists, legalists, or obedient servants? In this next segment we'll highlight a few noteworthy concerns.
The common argument is that since we are not clearly authorized by Scripture to celebrate the birth of Christ during such a season, we should have no celebrations or even special services to commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ. It's further argued that the Scripture does tell us to remember His death in the ordinance of the Lord's Supper, and we celebrate His resurrection by assembling on the first day of the week, but there is no precedent for celebrating His birth.
I'm sorry folks, but to me this just seems like what we could legitimately call "Hyper-Literalism" in the use of Scripture. Obviously, I'm pro Sola Scriptura, but such an approach completely misses the intent and purpose of His Word I think.
Hyper-Literalism (or "Letterism") is an intense devotion to the details of the Bible in such a way that one misses the essential thrust or spirit of a passage. It's believing in Sola Scriptura, but twisting and turning it on its head. Mountains are made out of mole hills and the truth is missed. One is busy counting the number of letters in a sentence rather than listening to its instruction.
Let me see if I can give you a quick example. The story of Jesus calming the storm has Matthew's account with Jesus saying, "O men of little faith"; Mark has, "Have you no faith?"; Luke has, "Where is your faith?". According to the logic instructed by Hyper-Literalism, Jesus must have calmed the storm three different times.
The point I'm trying to make is that if we applied this argument consistently (the argument that we are not supposed to celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ because it is not clearly instructed), then we would need to discontinue doing just about everything while also discontinuing the use of just about everything in our lives.
What prompts me to make such a statement? Well, I think the most compelling argument in defense of Christians who do want to celebrate Christmas each year on December 25th (aside from everything that was just presented) is THE RECOGNITION OF OUR SOVEREIGN GOD'S ORCHESTRATING THE CELEBRATION OF HIS SON JESUS CHRIST IN LATE DECEMBER, AND AT THE SAME TIME THAT THE PAGAN RELIGIONS CELEBRATED THEIR FALSE GODS (I.E. SATURNALIA), AS A BEAUTIFUL COMMENTARY THAT HE WAS CHOOSING CHRIST, OVER ALL THE OTHER GODS BEING WORSHIPPED AT THE TIME, TO FULFILL HIS PLANS FOR HUMANITY. This argument is underscored (and strengthened) when you consider that He did THE VERY SAME SAME with Jesus' Resurrection, which took place at the same time that the non-believers were celebrating their other false gods during the Spring too.
I mean, it wasn't until the 12th Century, or some 800 years after December 25th was instituted as the Advent date by the Roman Emperor Constantine in the 4th Century, that people began to suggest that he was heavily influenced to do so by pagan customs as opposed to the truth that it was due to the early church fathers. Again, even if you want to dispute that, we MUST NOT REMOVE THE SOVEREIGNTY OF GOD from this equation just like we wouldn't remove it from any of our studies having to do with these end times and the people who He's using to move us farther along the prophetic timeline today. I'm sorry, but the more I study this topic, the more I prayerfully think about it, the more I'm at peace with the whole thing.
Lastly, the fact that the early church fathers ignored the Scriptures (in the sense that they should've known that Jesus wasn't born in December) and "decided" to institute a holiday that commemorated His birth with already existing pagan customs and practices in honor of false gods shouldn't be pointed to as some kind of "proof" or "Aha! See, I told you! That's why Christians shouldn't celebrate Christmas!" kind of statement.
Why? My dear friends, isn't it obvious? GOD IS SOVEREIGN -- NOT MAN! Nothing happens -- nothing -- apart from His perfect timing, and His perfect will, to fulfill His perfect plans for humanity! Ok, so the early church fathers "decided" to set up a tradition that worshipped Jesus Christ each year that would also coincide with the worship of false gods that those all around them were following. You mean to tell me that you believe that they were able to do such a thing apart from God? If God never wanted that to happen it would never have happened.
Doesn't it make much more sense, given what we know about our Lord and His sovereignty, that He allowed such an event to take place so that the message would be clear to us? That message? "I chose Jesus Christ to be the Savior of mankind -- not Satan's false counterfeits!" (1 Thessalonians 5:9; Hebrews 2:10; Ephesians 1:5).
If we would only remember what we read in Exodus 34:14 amongst other places about God being a "jealous God", then I think it all starts to make even much more sense. It seems to have been a brilliantly and divinely executed event for Him to have set up a holiday that celebrates the birth of His Son Jesus Christ to coincide with the various holidays set up by non-believing men and women to celebrate their "saviors" when, in fact, there is only one true Savior.
Personally, this is why I'm coming down on the opposite (and probably unexpected/unpopular) side of this issue unlike my stance in regards to the celebration of Halloween let's say.
See, back in October, the impetus behind my decision to abstain from celebrating Halloween was due to how much of that holiday is antithetical to Biblical Christianity, both for the obvious reasons and the not so obvious reasons.
With Christmas, even though there are truly some things that are antithetical to Biblical Christianity, I pray that I've demonstrated that it's not such an open-and-shut case, and that there's actually more on the side that's in favor of celebrating Christmas than there is on the side that's against it. Remember, we do have freedom and liberty in Christ, do we not?
Freedom in Christ does not exclude us from our responsibilities though. I think a good line of defense is to examine ourselves regularly like we're commanded to (2 Corinthians 13:5) and see if the account recorded for us in the Gospel of Mark applies or not...
Mark 7:5-7 (KJV) Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands? He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips, but their heart is far from me. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.
Is a celebration of Christmas each year acceptable if we honor Jesus Christ with our hearts and not just our lips, or do these verses tell us that such a scenario is not possible given all the un-Biblical and non-Christian "trappings" associated with Christmas today?
No, it won't be easy, but I believe it should be food for thought, and something we might want to at least try to accomplish. For me, I want to at least try to celebrate His birth. I'm also not saying that my attitude toward Christmas will never change. For all I know, next year I could view things much differently. As for right now, this is the direction I'm leaning in.
HYPOCRITES? PHARISEES? PURISTS? LEGALISTS? OBEDIENT SERVANTS?
I've addressed the issue of the Sovereignty of God and how I believe it is quite relevant to this discussion, but what about that other driving force called hypocrisy? The verses from Mark 7 just a few moments ago kind of allude to the direction I want to go next.
Are those Christians who vehemently object to the views presented in this piece hypocrites, Pharisees, purists, legalists, or obedient servants? In this next segment we'll highlight a few noteworthy concerns.
The common argument is that since we are not clearly authorized by Scripture to celebrate the birth of Christ during such a season, we should have no celebrations or even special services to commemorate the birth of Jesus Christ. It's further argued that the Scripture does tell us to remember His death in the ordinance of the Lord's Supper, and we celebrate His resurrection by assembling on the first day of the week, but there is no precedent for celebrating His birth.
I'm sorry folks, but to me this just seems like what we could legitimately call "Hyper-Literalism" in the use of Scripture. Obviously, I'm pro Sola Scriptura, but such an approach completely misses the intent and purpose of His Word I think.
Hyper-Literalism (or "Letterism") is an intense devotion to the details of the Bible in such a way that one misses the essential thrust or spirit of a passage. It's believing in Sola Scriptura, but twisting and turning it on its head. Mountains are made out of mole hills and the truth is missed. One is busy counting the number of letters in a sentence rather than listening to its instruction.
Let me see if I can give you a quick example. The story of Jesus calming the storm has Matthew's account with Jesus saying, "O men of little faith"; Mark has, "Have you no faith?"; Luke has, "Where is your faith?". According to the logic instructed by Hyper-Literalism, Jesus must have calmed the storm three different times.
The point I'm trying to make is that if we applied this argument consistently (the argument that we are not supposed to celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ because it is not clearly instructed), then we would need to discontinue doing just about everything while also discontinuing the use of just about everything in our lives.
Ladies and Gentlemen, it might not be clearly instructed, but it is clearly implied by the text as previously mentioned.
I'd say that the number one reason often cited as to why Christians should not celebrate Christmas is that it is commercialized and materialistic. True for some, but true for all?
If we use this argument as a legitimate reason for discarding the entire celebration of Christ's birth at Christmas, it would follow that we would end up having to throw out just about...everything! Why? Because Satan and fallen, sinful man distorts, perverts, and ruins everything in life -- the Word of God, the church, relationships, worldviews, etc. Can you name one thing that Satan doesn't ruin? We don't throw things out just because the world misuses or distorts them.
In Titus 1:15 we read, "Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." The Apostle also warns against those who see evil in almost anything and condemn it. For these people, a lot of things have the appearance of evil, but purity is first of all a matter of the mind and conscience, not merely the external.
Just because the world distorts something, that does not make it "evil" per se if we avoid the distortions and use it as God intended, or in a way that does not go contrary to God's character and holiness. A good illustration is the beauty of sexual love within the bonds of marriage.
I began this section speaking of the hypocrisy that I see running rampant in this discussion. For those who are against the celebration of Christ's birth on Christmas by other Christians, and who cite passages like 1 Thessalonians 5:22 in spite of Titus 1:15, why doesn't the same then apply to your wearing makeup, dressing a certain way, listening to certain types of music, reading certain books and magazines, watching certain movies and TV shows, and acting a certain way with family and friends?
I mean, wasn't it the Fallen Angels who taught women how to apply and wear makeup? How consistent do we want to be with all of this? See what I mean though? I'm just trying to illustrate what I believe to be an important point.
Others will try to use the following text instead...
Interestingly enough, those who forbid Christians from celebrating Christmas will almost always suggest that we should be observing the Lord's Feasts instead. Seriously?
What Colossians 2:16-17 forbids is the celebration of religious seasons or holy days -- when they have been prescribed as religious duty and necessary for holiness or spirituality.
In this passage, the Apostle is talking about the Old Testament festivals which were shadows of the person and work of Christ, but Christ has now come. To continue to celebrate them is to dishonor the fact of His coming, or to act as though He were not enough for salvation or spirituality.
Note what the Apostle says, "let no one act as your judge in regard to..." He is saying don't let anyone tell you these things are REQUIREMENTS for fellowship with God. They were only shadows of the person and work of Christ, and He has not only come and fulfilled those shadows, but He is totally sufficient.
Colossians 2:16-17 in no way forbids believers from commemorating something such as the birth of Jesus Christ if it is done out of love, devotion, and the joy the season gives when used as a way of focusing on the Lord and Savior and not as a religious duty. The issue is not the observance, but the reason, the attitudes, and the spirit in which it is done.
The point is this: If the early church could celebrate the resurrection without a specific command from God, only the spirit of legalism (or the letter of the law) would forbid the celebration of Christ's birth as a special season of joy and adoration.
Ultimately, the issue is not the season, it's the attitude and reason behind it and the distortion of it. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
SOME FINAL THOUGHTS TO PRAYERFULLY CONSIDER...
In view of what we have looked at together here today, the Holy Bible is silent from the standpoint of our Christmas traditions. However, because of our freedom in Christ under grace, we are at liberty to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. The important point is that the Bible simply does not condemn the celebration of Christmas even in the traditional form and we have liberty in Christ to choose to do so.
Scripture does, however, set down principles which should most definitely affect the way we celebrate it if we choose to do so. These principles warn and protect us from the distortions we find in the world. For your prayerful consideration should you choose to celebrate Christmas this year...
Friends, it doesn't have to be like this. Even the gift aspect can be done in such a way that it is instructive, meaningful, in keeping with one's budget, and in keeping with Biblical teaching concerning Christian stewardship. What if each and every year that we celebrated Christmas we gave family and friends a Bible, or something that would encourage them to spend more time with Jesus Christ?
As we begin to wrap things up, let's try to put things in the proper perspective. We've all heard the common phrase: "Jesus is the reason for the season!" I want us to think about the gravity of that statement and let the true meaning sink in.
I once read that Don Kistler made the statement that "sin is the reason for the season" and I think he's absolutely right. Christ coming to earth as a human wasn’t for...
Nope, Jesus came because of your sin and mine. He was the perfect substitution for the object of God’s righteous wrath that we so justly deserve. So this holiday, remember sin is the real reason for the season.
All that being said, an online ministry calling itself the "Advent Conspiracy" had produced a pretty good 2-minute video last year on seasonal priorities...
Advent Conspiracy 2009 Promo Video
I think that's a good dose of reality for all of us as it pertains to this subject, don't you?
Please forgive me, I fear I'm starting to ramble now. I'll leave you with this thought especially if you're still inclined to fail to see any of the Biblical arguments FOR CELEBRATING CHRISTMAS that were presented here today.
What are two fundamental tenets of our cherished and shared faith? The birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ, right? I mean, without either of them (or one without the other even) we couldn't even call ourselves "Christians" and probably wouldn't because our faith would've been no different than any other that came before it. There would be no power in the person of Jesus Christ or in God Word's if either of those two scenarios were the case. It's Christ Who stands as a fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, and Christ who stands at the center of it all (His-story).
Now, what is the subject of Christmas? Christ's birth, right? That's an extremely important event that's recorded for us in great detail in the Gospels, right? So, in other words, it's something that God wanted us to know and remember, right? Therein lies the important point that I think many of us have been far too quick to casually dismiss and overlook (myself included).
All I'm suggesting is that we remove emotions from this fierce debate and fully examine both sides of the issue because I don't believe it's a clear-cut-case.
I just thought of something else here too. I'm sorry, but those Christians who are going to be quick to criticize Christians like me for celebrating Christmas might want to also make sure that they themselves know what is "fact" and what is "fiction" first when it comes what a majority of Christians believe to be true about the account of the birth of Christ. This will help.
If we use this argument as a legitimate reason for discarding the entire celebration of Christ's birth at Christmas, it would follow that we would end up having to throw out just about...everything! Why? Because Satan and fallen, sinful man distorts, perverts, and ruins everything in life -- the Word of God, the church, relationships, worldviews, etc. Can you name one thing that Satan doesn't ruin? We don't throw things out just because the world misuses or distorts them.
In Titus 1:15 we read, "Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." The Apostle also warns against those who see evil in almost anything and condemn it. For these people, a lot of things have the appearance of evil, but purity is first of all a matter of the mind and conscience, not merely the external.
Just because the world distorts something, that does not make it "evil" per se if we avoid the distortions and use it as God intended, or in a way that does not go contrary to God's character and holiness. A good illustration is the beauty of sexual love within the bonds of marriage.
I began this section speaking of the hypocrisy that I see running rampant in this discussion. For those who are against the celebration of Christ's birth on Christmas by other Christians, and who cite passages like 1 Thessalonians 5:22 in spite of Titus 1:15, why doesn't the same then apply to your wearing makeup, dressing a certain way, listening to certain types of music, reading certain books and magazines, watching certain movies and TV shows, and acting a certain way with family and friends?
I mean, wasn't it the Fallen Angels who taught women how to apply and wear makeup? How consistent do we want to be with all of this? See what I mean though? I'm just trying to illustrate what I believe to be an important point.
Others will try to use the following text instead...
Colossians 2:16-17 (KJV) Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ.
Interestingly enough, those who forbid Christians from celebrating Christmas will almost always suggest that we should be observing the Lord's Feasts instead. Seriously?
What Colossians 2:16-17 forbids is the celebration of religious seasons or holy days -- when they have been prescribed as religious duty and necessary for holiness or spirituality.
In this passage, the Apostle is talking about the Old Testament festivals which were shadows of the person and work of Christ, but Christ has now come. To continue to celebrate them is to dishonor the fact of His coming, or to act as though He were not enough for salvation or spirituality.
Note what the Apostle says, "let no one act as your judge in regard to..." He is saying don't let anyone tell you these things are REQUIREMENTS for fellowship with God. They were only shadows of the person and work of Christ, and He has not only come and fulfilled those shadows, but He is totally sufficient.
Colossians 2:16-17 in no way forbids believers from commemorating something such as the birth of Jesus Christ if it is done out of love, devotion, and the joy the season gives when used as a way of focusing on the Lord and Savior and not as a religious duty. The issue is not the observance, but the reason, the attitudes, and the spirit in which it is done.
The point is this: If the early church could celebrate the resurrection without a specific command from God, only the spirit of legalism (or the letter of the law) would forbid the celebration of Christ's birth as a special season of joy and adoration.
Ultimately, the issue is not the season, it's the attitude and reason behind it and the distortion of it. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
SOME FINAL THOUGHTS TO PRAYERFULLY CONSIDER...
In view of what we have looked at together here today, the Holy Bible is silent from the standpoint of our Christmas traditions. However, because of our freedom in Christ under grace, we are at liberty to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ. The important point is that the Bible simply does not condemn the celebration of Christmas even in the traditional form and we have liberty in Christ to choose to do so.
Scripture does, however, set down principles which should most definitely affect the way we celebrate it if we choose to do so. These principles warn and protect us from the distortions we find in the world. For your prayerful consideration should you choose to celebrate Christmas this year...
> Today in many companies and offices, Christmas is celebrated with wild, drunken parties where there is no regard for the the birth of the Savior of the world. It becomes just a time of merriment and a time to tie one on. Obviously, that's a problem.
> Today people often spend lavishly on gifts and go deeply in debt and never think about the poor. They buy things they can't afford, things which nobody needs, and things sometimes the people they buy them for can't even identify. Obviously, that's a problem.
> Children get caught up with the gifts and the toys and lose sight of the Lord and Savior, or worse, never even hear about Jesus as God's gift of His Son that we might have eternal life. Obviously, that's a problem.
> Through the Christmas message, parents often fail to teach the spirit of giving as an outworking of one's relationship with God through faith in Christ, God's gift to the world. Obviously, that's a problem.
> Some may observe (or not observe) the season as they would observe Lent, as a religious holy day that must be observed to gain points with God, or to become more spiritual. Obviously, that's a problem.
Friends, it doesn't have to be like this. Even the gift aspect can be done in such a way that it is instructive, meaningful, in keeping with one's budget, and in keeping with Biblical teaching concerning Christian stewardship. What if each and every year that we celebrated Christmas we gave family and friends a Bible, or something that would encourage them to spend more time with Jesus Christ?
As we begin to wrap things up, let's try to put things in the proper perspective. We've all heard the common phrase: "Jesus is the reason for the season!" I want us to think about the gravity of that statement and let the true meaning sink in.
I once read that Don Kistler made the statement that "sin is the reason for the season" and I think he's absolutely right. Christ coming to earth as a human wasn’t for...
> Your happiness in this life
> Your self-esteem
> Your dreams and goals
> Your personal finances
> Your financial success
> Your social status
> Your gift exchange parties at Christmas
Nope, Jesus came because of your sin and mine. He was the perfect substitution for the object of God’s righteous wrath that we so justly deserve. So this holiday, remember sin is the real reason for the season.
Mark 10:45 (KJV) For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.
2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV) For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
All that being said, an online ministry calling itself the "Advent Conspiracy" had produced a pretty good 2-minute video last year on seasonal priorities...
Advent Conspiracy 2009 Promo Video
I think that's a good dose of reality for all of us as it pertains to this subject, don't you?
Please forgive me, I fear I'm starting to ramble now. I'll leave you with this thought especially if you're still inclined to fail to see any of the Biblical arguments FOR CELEBRATING CHRISTMAS that were presented here today.
What are two fundamental tenets of our cherished and shared faith? The birth and resurrection of Jesus Christ, right? I mean, without either of them (or one without the other even) we couldn't even call ourselves "Christians" and probably wouldn't because our faith would've been no different than any other that came before it. There would be no power in the person of Jesus Christ or in God Word's if either of those two scenarios were the case. It's Christ Who stands as a fulfillment of Old Testament prophecy, and Christ who stands at the center of it all (His-story).
Now, what is the subject of Christmas? Christ's birth, right? That's an extremely important event that's recorded for us in great detail in the Gospels, right? So, in other words, it's something that God wanted us to know and remember, right? Therein lies the important point that I think many of us have been far too quick to casually dismiss and overlook (myself included).
All I'm suggesting is that we remove emotions from this fierce debate and fully examine both sides of the issue because I don't believe it's a clear-cut-case.
I just thought of something else here too. I'm sorry, but those Christians who are going to be quick to criticize Christians like me for celebrating Christmas might want to also make sure that they themselves know what is "fact" and what is "fiction" first when it comes what a majority of Christians believe to be true about the account of the birth of Christ. This will help.
Does anyone else see a bit of irony in that dichotomy too? I'll get blasted for "not knowing what God's Word says about Christmas", but those handing out such charges won't get blasted for not knowing what God's Word says about the account of our Lord and Savior's birth that is actually much different from what we envision when we think about it.
We can go even deeper with this though. I for one am very grateful for the grace that is shown to others because the Lord Jesus Christ bestows His grace upon us. Each of us are at different levels in our Christian walk. One individual might have a firm grasp on Scripture and be mature in one area, yet exercise what he or she understands or believes to be Christian liberty just as was seen by the apostle Paul in his day.
Please understand that I get the arguments that are often made -- I really do. I also understand that this raging debate within the Body of Christ isn’t just an ecumenical "Can’t-We-All-Just-Get-Along" admonition. We are called to be citizens not of the world, but of His Kingdom. Our Lord, however, has given us liberty in certain areas. Neither liberty nor refraining are to be used as clubs with which we are to beat each other about the head and shoulders. The apostle Paul certainly did not use such tactics, but went graciously to those he wrote and dealt with matters in a Christ-like manner. Why am I not seeing that when it comes to this issue though?
The celebration of Christmas falls under the category of debatable or doubtful things covered by the principles of Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 and 1 Corinthians 9. In summary, these passages teach us the following principles...
Again, the ultimate issue is our attitude, the reasons, and how if one decides to celebrate the Christmas season in some fashion.
I, for one, am very grateful for the grace that is shown to others because the Lord Jesus Christ bestows His grace upon us. Each of us are at different levels in our Christian walk. One individual might have a firm grasp on Scripture and be mature in one area, yet exercise what he or she understands or believes to be Christian liberty just as was seen by the apostle Paul in his day.
Having said that, no, it does not ever excuse our own behavior or thoughts as we strive to be more like the Lord Jesus Christ today than we were yesterday, and more like Him tomorrow than we were today.
I have met many people lately who have chosen not to celebrate Christmas and they are my brothers and sisters, but I can also tell you that I could probably count on one hand the number of people who have shown grace to those who do choose to celebrate Christmas. Why is that? Sadly, I find this to be a damning indictment against those who "claim" to be more spiritual in some way because they refrain from any form of festivities that surround predominantly pagan traditions.
While there are many who would twist Scripture such as the use of Jeremiah 10 to justify the condemnation of "Christmas" trees, my goal has been to learn how to study to be a Berean Christian. By the way, I'm still learning. See, the issue is not the day itself for me, but whether I, and my family, can include any of all that represents what's wrong with Christmas these days and still be doing it ALL for the glory of God. We'll see.
While we'll no doubt refrain from certain aspects, does that automatically imply that we have thrown out every reference to "Christmas", or will stay away from church when they remind the congregation about the first coming of our precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, or refuse to sing any songs that glorify, honor, praise, and worship Him, etc., etc., etc.? No!
The answer is simple really. My family (and yours) must make those decisions. Yes, it will affect each member in a different way, but the reality is that I do not have to give an account to any one of you who read this, nor to friends, nor to extended relatives. For that I am very thankful. With the knowledge and grace that has been extended to me, I have had to make a decision for which I will only give an account to the One Who loved me, the One Who died to atone for my sins, and the One Who is coming again in all His majesty!
The truth of the matter? Christmas is one of the few times of the year when Christianity has the full attention of the entire world. Without the birth of Jesus Christ, the Old Testament prophecies would've been a lie, there would've be no Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, there would've been no cross, no empty tomb, no forgiveness of sins so, of course, we should celebrate the birth of Christ, right?
To say otherwise is to preach the message of Satan I think. I could be wrong, but that's my take. I will add that how or when you celebrate is a different matter entirely, and completely up to the individual, and I pray that I've made myself clear on making those distinctions here.
At the end of the day, I still hold to the belief that it's more a matter of "personal preference" than anything else especially if your heart and mind are in the right place during this time of year. No, it won't be easy keeping your heart and mind in the right place with all of the distractions (temptations really), but I think it's noble to make an effort at least.
What does a genuine "effort" like that look like, you ask? Well, to me, it looks and sounds something like this...
Opera Company Of Philadelphia "Hallelujah!" Random Act Of Culture
Christmas Food Court Flash Mob, Hallelujah Chorus
Christmas Flash Mob In Edmonton City Centre Mall, Hallelujah Chorus
Simply beautiful! These performances were done in spite of most in the mall where the glory of God was the furthest thing from their minds, much like those on the Day of Judgment will bow their knee and proclaim Jesus as Lord in spite of living their lives where the glory of God was the furthest thing from their minds.
Those on Judgment Day will have no way to stop their compulsion to proclaim Jesus as Lord, much like those in the food court had no way to stop those who were singing praises of the BORN and risen Savior. That was a beautiful portrayal of the worship of the Lamb that was slain by His redeemed one’s that will take place in Heaven.
Folks, were these Christians "wrong" to co-mingle with the lost, non-believing, pagan world like that in an attempt to bring glory and honor to their King? Where they "wrong" to use Christmas as an opportunity to witness to a world that desperately needs to hear His name? Isn't this the opportunity that lies before each and every one of us this week? Isn't it a pattern that we can begin in a few days and carry over into the New Year? You bet it is!
John MacArthur summed up my feelings on Christmas best...
There are many things we do that appear to have pagan origins that are not un-Biblical though. How many of you reading this celebrates your birthday each year? We give and receive gifts on those occasions. Should we refrain from that as well?
My point is that if we are not careful we can place too much emphasis on "pagan" roots of something without being perfectly clear as to why something happens or takes place. As one example on a completely different issue, I once read that Funeral Directors state that a lot of people choose cremation over burial. Some Christians will state they do not want cremation because it is pagan in origin when it's more of a preference than anything.
We can go even deeper with this though. I for one am very grateful for the grace that is shown to others because the Lord Jesus Christ bestows His grace upon us. Each of us are at different levels in our Christian walk. One individual might have a firm grasp on Scripture and be mature in one area, yet exercise what he or she understands or believes to be Christian liberty just as was seen by the apostle Paul in his day.
Please understand that I get the arguments that are often made -- I really do. I also understand that this raging debate within the Body of Christ isn’t just an ecumenical "Can’t-We-All-Just-Get-Along" admonition. We are called to be citizens not of the world, but of His Kingdom. Our Lord, however, has given us liberty in certain areas. Neither liberty nor refraining are to be used as clubs with which we are to beat each other about the head and shoulders. The apostle Paul certainly did not use such tactics, but went graciously to those he wrote and dealt with matters in a Christ-like manner. Why am I not seeing that when it comes to this issue though?
The celebration of Christmas falls under the category of debatable or doubtful things covered by the principles of Romans 14 and 1 Corinthians 8 and 1 Corinthians 9. In summary, these passages teach us the following principles...
> Every believer must become convinced in his or her own mind (Romans 14:5).
> We must not judge or look upon other with contempt who do not come to the same conclusion that we do (Romans 14:3-4,13).
> Just as there is nothing evil in meat sacrificed to idols, so there is nothing inherently evil in the traditional Christmas with the tree, presents, carols, and decorations. Such things become what people make them by their attitudes and beliefs (Romans 14:22-23; 1 Corinthians 8:4-8; 10:19).
Again, the ultimate issue is our attitude, the reasons, and how if one decides to celebrate the Christmas season in some fashion.
I, for one, am very grateful for the grace that is shown to others because the Lord Jesus Christ bestows His grace upon us. Each of us are at different levels in our Christian walk. One individual might have a firm grasp on Scripture and be mature in one area, yet exercise what he or she understands or believes to be Christian liberty just as was seen by the apostle Paul in his day.
Having said that, no, it does not ever excuse our own behavior or thoughts as we strive to be more like the Lord Jesus Christ today than we were yesterday, and more like Him tomorrow than we were today.
1 Corinthians 10:31 (KJV) Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
I have met many people lately who have chosen not to celebrate Christmas and they are my brothers and sisters, but I can also tell you that I could probably count on one hand the number of people who have shown grace to those who do choose to celebrate Christmas. Why is that? Sadly, I find this to be a damning indictment against those who "claim" to be more spiritual in some way because they refrain from any form of festivities that surround predominantly pagan traditions.
While there are many who would twist Scripture such as the use of Jeremiah 10 to justify the condemnation of "Christmas" trees, my goal has been to learn how to study to be a Berean Christian. By the way, I'm still learning. See, the issue is not the day itself for me, but whether I, and my family, can include any of all that represents what's wrong with Christmas these days and still be doing it ALL for the glory of God. We'll see.
While we'll no doubt refrain from certain aspects, does that automatically imply that we have thrown out every reference to "Christmas", or will stay away from church when they remind the congregation about the first coming of our precious Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, or refuse to sing any songs that glorify, honor, praise, and worship Him, etc., etc., etc.? No!
The answer is simple really. My family (and yours) must make those decisions. Yes, it will affect each member in a different way, but the reality is that I do not have to give an account to any one of you who read this, nor to friends, nor to extended relatives. For that I am very thankful. With the knowledge and grace that has been extended to me, I have had to make a decision for which I will only give an account to the One Who loved me, the One Who died to atone for my sins, and the One Who is coming again in all His majesty!
The truth of the matter? Christmas is one of the few times of the year when Christianity has the full attention of the entire world. Without the birth of Jesus Christ, the Old Testament prophecies would've been a lie, there would've be no Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, there would've been no cross, no empty tomb, no forgiveness of sins so, of course, we should celebrate the birth of Christ, right?
To say otherwise is to preach the message of Satan I think. I could be wrong, but that's my take. I will add that how or when you celebrate is a different matter entirely, and completely up to the individual, and I pray that I've made myself clear on making those distinctions here.
At the end of the day, I still hold to the belief that it's more a matter of "personal preference" than anything else especially if your heart and mind are in the right place during this time of year. No, it won't be easy keeping your heart and mind in the right place with all of the distractions (temptations really), but I think it's noble to make an effort at least.
What does a genuine "effort" like that look like, you ask? Well, to me, it looks and sounds something like this...
Opera Company Of Philadelphia "Hallelujah!" Random Act Of Culture
Christmas Food Court Flash Mob, Hallelujah Chorus
Christmas Flash Mob In Edmonton City Centre Mall, Hallelujah Chorus
Simply beautiful! These performances were done in spite of most in the mall where the glory of God was the furthest thing from their minds, much like those on the Day of Judgment will bow their knee and proclaim Jesus as Lord in spite of living their lives where the glory of God was the furthest thing from their minds.
Those on Judgment Day will have no way to stop their compulsion to proclaim Jesus as Lord, much like those in the food court had no way to stop those who were singing praises of the BORN and risen Savior. That was a beautiful portrayal of the worship of the Lamb that was slain by His redeemed one’s that will take place in Heaven.
Folks, were these Christians "wrong" to co-mingle with the lost, non-believing, pagan world like that in an attempt to bring glory and honor to their King? Where they "wrong" to use Christmas as an opportunity to witness to a world that desperately needs to hear His name? Isn't this the opportunity that lies before each and every one of us this week? Isn't it a pattern that we can begin in a few days and carry over into the New Year? You bet it is!
John MacArthur summed up my feelings on Christmas best...
The Puritans in early America rejected Christmas celebrations altogether. They deliberately worked on December 25 to show their disdain. A law passed in England in 1644 reflected a similar Puritan influence; the law made Christmas Day an official working day. For a time in England it was literally illegal to cook plum pudding or mince pie for the holidays.
Christians today are generally not opposed to celebrating Christmas. The holiday itself is nothing, and observing it is not a question of right or wrong. As Paul wrote, “One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God” (Rom 14:5-6). Every day – including Christmas – is a celebration for us who know and love Him.
[SOURCE: "Truth For Today: A Daily Touch Of God’s Grace"]
There are many things we do that appear to have pagan origins that are not un-Biblical though. How many of you reading this celebrates your birthday each year? We give and receive gifts on those occasions. Should we refrain from that as well?
My point is that if we are not careful we can place too much emphasis on "pagan" roots of something without being perfectly clear as to why something happens or takes place. As one example on a completely different issue, I once read that Funeral Directors state that a lot of people choose cremation over burial. Some Christians will state they do not want cremation because it is pagan in origin when it's more of a preference than anything.
Even if they're right though, those same Christians who objected to cremation will choose the route of embalming the body, which was an ancient practice of the Egyptians. Embalming is just as pagan in origin as cremation by their definition!
And what of the names for the days of the week and the months of the year? Should we create our own calendar system that we go by from now on? I'm being facetious, but hopefully you can see that certain things in life are practiced of which we give very little heed to.
I believe the bottom line is that if a person wishes to have decorations, tinsel, glitter, snowflakes, a tree, presents, etc., they have the liberty to do so provided their heart and mind is right before the Lord. If the season becomes merely the means to obtaining stuff and giving stuff and fed too much, it is a sin of gluttony and covetousness. If it is a day whereby our main focus is the Perfect Gift and through the giving of gifts to our children, we use this as an example to them, I do not find a fault in Scripture that precludes us from doing so.
I'm sorry my dear friends, but part of me just wonders if this is a carefully crafted demonic deception, mixed with some truth to make it palatable of course, to get the Body of Christ to openly reject any and all kinds of worship held in honor of the birth of our King Jesus Christ, the reason we even call ourselves "Christians" in the first place, leading the Body of Christ to apostasy. Isn't that possible? I just think we should be asking that question is all.
Think about it. Who would be most pleased by someone saying, "I am NOT going to celebrate the coming of Jesus Christ into this world through the womb of a virgin just as God proclaimed would happen -- never ever!" especially if that person was also a professing Christian? Who would be most pleased by such an adamant pronouncement each year?
God or Satan?
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I believe the bottom line is that if a person wishes to have decorations, tinsel, glitter, snowflakes, a tree, presents, etc., they have the liberty to do so provided their heart and mind is right before the Lord. If the season becomes merely the means to obtaining stuff and giving stuff and fed too much, it is a sin of gluttony and covetousness. If it is a day whereby our main focus is the Perfect Gift and through the giving of gifts to our children, we use this as an example to them, I do not find a fault in Scripture that precludes us from doing so.
I'm sorry my dear friends, but part of me just wonders if this is a carefully crafted demonic deception, mixed with some truth to make it palatable of course, to get the Body of Christ to openly reject any and all kinds of worship held in honor of the birth of our King Jesus Christ, the reason we even call ourselves "Christians" in the first place, leading the Body of Christ to apostasy. Isn't that possible? I just think we should be asking that question is all.
Think about it. Who would be most pleased by someone saying, "I am NOT going to celebrate the coming of Jesus Christ into this world through the womb of a virgin just as God proclaimed would happen -- never ever!" especially if that person was also a professing Christian? Who would be most pleased by such an adamant pronouncement each year?
God or Satan?
Share|
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119 Comments:
Grace. Graciousness.
Please be Christian-like in your responses here. If not for me, then for those who are being drawn by Christ, but who are not yet saved who are lurking here and reading this thread.
I'm sure you can all agree that the impact of graciousness makes a much greater impression than those who try to flex their spiritual muscles all the while bullying others into accepting their own decisions without the benefit of learning to be a Berean Christian.
Far too many forget their own path of progressive sanctification and often resort to such means that only reflect the works of the flesh are still too prevalent.
Thank you for your time and understanding.
Your Brother In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
I think this video touches on the subject you posted on Christmas. Good work Jeff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJaE0xcVZIU&feature=player_embedded
Jeffrey,
Other than your IMO unnecessary hits against RCC, I happen to completely agree with your stance as outlined in this article.
I believe you are correct that there are MANY deceptions intertwined by the great deceiver, throughout our entire history.
However, please do consider that our Roman Catholic Church is NOT everything that you believe it to be. It certainly has its dysfunctional qualities and members, but just as you have come to the conclusion here that not all tradition is bad, the traditions and the Traditions of the RCC are not all bad either.
With love and servant's heart, I respect your positions, but you just made a beautiful and compelling argument FOR the very existence of our traditions that you often state are not valid because they are not biblical.
We often lovingly share the exact same style of message that you just used, to explain to protestants the why of our faith.
God Bless you and your family this beautiful Christmas Season!
Jeff, I think you can file this under "confirmation". I'm a regular LUF reader, and I've also been wrestling with "SHOULD we celebrate? are we being pagans because we have the christmas tree - we don't WORSHIP the tree, but am i offending the Lord???" what to do????? this morning the scripture about food being sacrificed to idols came to me (the one you referenced :-) and it just seemed to me that i had my answer. I've been walking with the Lord for sometime now, and much more closely in the past 2 years. I've also these past 2 years been trying to emphasize Jesus more during Christmas, and materialism less (i tell them that birthdays are for that, lol). Just like you said, our tree is a decoration, nothing more. we do NOT worship the tree. Perhaps pagans worship trees, but if i happen to admire a tree's beauty, that does not mean i'm worshipping it. I truly felt that as long as i am not worshipping these things, but reverencing and worshipping our Lord Jesus Christ only, then there is no conflict. Does it matter what day we celebrate His birthday on? If it did, i'm certain the Lord would have provided the date for us. God is sovereign on ALL days of the year (even halloween!!!!! take that darkness and evil, He's sovereign on that one too, ha!).
Thank you for your post, i know it was probably a difficult one to write, as i too have seen a lot of opinion out there that goes in the opposite direction. But it seems we are on the same page, brother in Christ (and i was thinking on this, this very morning!!).
Sometimes families do have disagreements, but as brothers and sisters in Christ, let us still love one another.
Jesus IS the reason for the season, and THE reason for all things :-)
Merry Christmas to you and your loved ones!
court
Deut 7:26:
"Do not bring a detestable thing into your house or you, like it, will be set apart for destruction. Utterly abhor and detest it, for it is set apart for destruction."
Lloyd,
Thank you for your reply and thought-provoking comments. A very compelling response indeed.
I'm not quite sure if making an argument for celebrating Jesus Christ's birth is akin to all that the RCC has done/is doing (my argument, I believe I've shown, still conforms to Scripture, whereas the RCC instituted beliefs, I believe, could be shown to violate Scripture), but I'm willing to explore the suggestion (perhaps next week some time, God willing) out of love and respect as well.
Timely, because soon after I read your comments I came across this commentary ("Christmas With Crank") in my never-ending pursuit of the truth that made me consider the comparisons between the RCC and the Reformed Movement (Westminster Confession) cited in this piece...
http://christianreader.com/2010/12/christmas-with-the-crank/
Anyway, the above article adds another angle to this whole debate that I didn't have time to explore.
Bottom line, I still maintain my position and agree with the author's general message that resonates with the one I was trying to make: We must be GENUINE in our celebration, praise, and worship and ensure that our hearts and minds are right in the process.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Anonymous,
You conveniently left out verse 25 (the previous verse to the one you cited) which adds some much needed context here...
Deuteronomy 7:25 The images of their gods you are to burn in the fire. Do not covet the silver and gold on them, and do not take it for yourselves, or you will be ensnared by it, for it is detestable to the LORD your God.
What is "a detestable thing" then? Those "images of their gods", right? The corollary? "Do not covet the silver and gold on them" because "it is detestable to the LORD your God" (that is, the idol, and those of us who are coveting and allowing it to ensnare us is the "detestable" thing).
I can assure you that while I'm sure there are people alive today who truly worship a Christmas Tree and all that adorns it, me and my family do not. We do not covet it and certainly have not been ensnared by it.
Thus, we have not brought what is "detestable" into our home leading to the consequences we then read in verse 26 that was cited.
Right or wrong? Again, I'm just trying to be a Berean here and trying to encourage everyone else to be the same.
Your Brother In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Dear Jeff,
It really boils down to a heart thing. This will be our first year of not celebrating. We do celebrate in our hearts and actions the sacrifice and gift of salvation from the LORD every day. However, like you, in the pursuit of understanding and not wanting to offend the LORD, we have done a ton of Bible study on it. The xmas tree does date back to the asherah poles/fertility worship. (that could be the 'destable thing'.) I am so thankful Yeshua said on the cross, 'forgive them Father for they know not what they do'. Because there are many things that I have done as a believer and didn't really know what I was doing. (and am sure there is still more! I am not perfect). I guess what has really blown our minds is how receptive our kids have been. They did their own research and prayer on it. Perhaps because they are kids and their hearts arn't as tainted as ours, they readily accept the truth. (Of course they still hate to do chores! Ha!) We did however recognize Hannuka. I would never condemn anyone for anything they do; it is the Holy Spirit's job to do that. However, I do sense strongly in my spirit that the xmas thing is dangerous ground and should be avoided.
Peace,
Deirdre
"Disturbing Christmas" by C.J. Mahaney is brief but powerful...
http://www.crosswalk.com/11597449/
Here's an excerpt:
Many people who otherwise ignore God and the church have some religious feeling, or feel they ought to, at this time of the year. So they make their way to a church service or Christmas program. And when they go, they come away feeling vaguely warmed or at least better for having gone, but not disturbed. Why aren't people disturbed by Christmas? One reason is our tendency to sanitize the birth narratives. We romanticize the story of Mary and Joseph rather than deal with the painful dilemma they faced when the Lord chose Mary to be the virgin who would conceive her child by the power of the Holy Spirit. We beautify the birth scene, not coming to terms with the stench of the stable, the poverty of the parents, the hostility of Herod. Don't miss my point. There is something truly comforting and warming about the Christmas story, but it comes from understanding the reality, not from denying it. Most of us also have not come to terms with the baby in the manger. We sing, "Glory to the newborn King." But do we truly recognize that the baby lying in the manger is appointed by God to be the King, to be either the Savior or Judge of all people? He is a most threatening person. Malachi foresaw his coming and said, "But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap." As long as we can keep him in the manger, and feel the sentimental feelings we have for babies, Jesus doesn't disturb us. But once we understand that his coming means for every one of us either salvation or condemnation, he disturbs us deeply. What should be just as disturbing is the awful work Christ had to do to accomplish the salvation of his people. Yet his very name, Jesus, testifies to us of that work. That baby was born so that "he who had no sin" would become "sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." The baby's destiny from the moment of his conception was hell—hell in the place of sinners. When I look into the manger, I come away shaken as I realize again that he was born to pay the unbearable penalty for my sins. That's the message of Christmas: God reconciled the world to himself through Christ, man's sin has alienated him from God, and man's reconciliation with God is possible only through faith in Christ…Christmas is disturbing. Don't get me wrong--Christmas should be a wonderful celebration. Properly understood, the message of Christmas confronts before it comforts, it disturbs before it delights.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Hi Jeff!
We have been on both sides of this issue over the years, and finally quit doing Christmas for good a couple of years ago.Aside from the conviction of the Spirit, we certainly agreed with some of the "opposed" ideas you presented here, but with a bit of a different "slant".
We disagree that Jer 10 is used out of context. A plain reading of verses 1&2 declare that God's people should not learn the ways of the nations, fear what they fear, & participate in their customs. Again God was making the point that His people should be separate, purity is a big deal to Him, and that has not changed. Do we really "need" to take our freedom in Christ, and use it to celebrate Jesus with practices that have not got their origin in God???
God gave celebrations to do. They are called the Feasts of the Lord, they are HIS feasts, they do not belong to Israel, they belong to Him. Each of those celebrations were "dress rehearsals" about Jesus, who is the embodiment and fulfillment of them. Why do we gravitate toward pagan practices, when we could learn about and "do" the celebrations that were actually ordained by our God???? There is a fairly good "case to be made" that Jesus was born on Tabernacles, and He has already fulfilled the spring feasts. Do you really think that God put Passover where He did, to "conflict" with Easter???? I don't see how that, or using the winter pagan fest to celebrate His Son, demonstrates His sovereignty?? He does not share His glory with another, nor does He "compete". He put His feasts where He did, because that was His perfect will and they are the truth.
In addition, we just didn't want to err on the side of being offensive. We did not want to take our liberty to do something "iffy" and that was not even "essential". We ignore the day now. Our children adjusted much easier than we thought they would.
We do intend to look into the Feasts of Lord, as our source of celebration of Jesus, they were decreed by God Himself, they are solely about Jesus, and who He is. As the church, we have no command to "do the feasts", but, how much we can learn about the Lord through them, and learn to celebrate doing things His "style". We can look back to their fulfillment, we can celebrate as the early church did, if we feel a need to celebrate. Jesus celebrated Hannukah, maybe we will too.
Your post was very thorough, you definitely put a ton of work into it!! Maybe you will have a similar experience like many of us: once the understanding came of the origins, not to mention the horrendous cultural pressure to "buy buy buy", it got more and more difficult to "do", until we just quit. We must say, to our total surprise, it was so freeing!! It is so interesting to "see" how many Christians are "quitting" and secular folks are feeling the bondage as well. Something that was taken for granted as part of "life", is now being weighed and examined for what it actually is, how it affects us, and most importantly, how do we perceive that God sees it. It seems to be a "new" thing.
Bless you Jeff you have been a huge blessing to us!!
Maranatha!!!
Hi Jeff!
While looking into this whole topic ourselves, we ran into an "issue" that we haven't been able to quite "resolve".
Paul in Ephesians gives some instructions re:food sacrificed to idols and the freedom believers may have.
But in Rev, to the churches of Pergamum and Thyatira, Jesus tells them He is against those who teach others about eating food sacrificed to idols. He doesn't seem to give the leeway Paul does.
Since there seems to be a bit of uncertainty, we decided to just stay out of the "grey areas", in what we do, and especially how we live our lives for Christ. Really, what is the "sacrifice" of staying away from things that MAY be offensive to Him???? These are things we do not NEED to do.
Maybe you have an answer????
Maranatha!!!
Very well said by The Desert Pastor!! Many many are taking the same approach it seems after MUCH soul searching, researching etc!!
http://defendingcontending.com/2010/11/29/a-radical-approach-to-december-25th-why-we-wont-be-celebrating-christmas-this-year/
Oooops!
The good article and comments discussion on Defending Contending is by Pilgrim not The Desert Pastor.
Every year it was shoved down our throats. You must accept Santa as your personal gift giver. We weren't welcome at family functions because we didn't teach our kids to believe in Santa, instead we tried to focus on the birth of Jesus Christ. It wasn't like we were interfering with what they were teaching their kids. But it made them angry that our kids did not "believe". It actually led to us not being welcomed at family events and our young children being treated like criminals for believing in the Christ child. I can understand you don't like being attacked for your celebration of Christmas. How would you like to be attacked by your own family for focusing on Jesus? We used to do all the usual Christmas things and still do not totally boycott Christmas.
I didn't start a fight, but the moment I made the decision to be a Christian and put Jesus first, it found me.
Celebrate Christmas they way you and your family see fit. I trust the Holy Spirit to work in each and every one of us to finish the job that He has started. Have a wonderful holiday.
Jeff my brother, since we as Christians honor the sanctity of life by being against abortion and euthanasia and therefore believe that life begins at conception, we have to admit that the gift of salvation was sent to this earth the moment our savior was conceived. Now, all that I've read has lead me to believe that it was approximately at this time when the immaculate conception occured therefore the joyous gift of redemption became a living and corporal gift roughly at this time. I have no problems taking joy and comfort at this time of year in light of this and even sharing a little extra with those in need or devoting a little more time for my friends, family and even stranger. If we can't do it now then when should we do it? I know we should be that way all year long and let's face it, most Christians really are that way all year long. If we can honor the birth days of our long lived loved ones and cherish the birth dates of our children then why shouldn't we smile, open our hearts a little more and proclaim our faith and acceptance of our salvation on a day that is approximately the time when that salvation took living human form? If we as Christians keep from being sucked into the vortex of commercialism and everything else that the secular world has tried to transform Christmas into, then we commit no trespass. God bless you my friend and Merry Christmas!
Where words are many sin is not absent...
celebrating birthdays is a Babylonian custom to begin with.
No one knows the actual birth date of Christ/Salvation.
The whole holi day is built upon the foundation of a lie. There is a spirit involved all right and its a lying spirit. All those xmas trees around the world might as well be obelisks and don't you think its interesting that a big one is in time square? squares compasses and masonic idols hmm.
Jeremiah warned about taking on the customs of the heathen. Mixing the holy birth of Salvation with the unconquered sun god winter solstice birthday is mixing the holy with the profane causing the strong delusion...the spirit of the season and all those cursed idol trees people bow down before are evidence of the snare the whole world is caught up in. My people perish for lack of knowledge.
Rebellious Israel still continuing to offer up strange incense...having forgotten what an idol of Egypt really looks like having forgotten The Passover the Red Sea for those who were willing to follow the messenger and Separate and come out.
link to another video The Evil Roots of Xmass...
http://watchman.wall.fm/video/view/44
http://womenagainstislamiclaw.wordpress.com/
http://littlebookofmichael.wordpress.com/
Jer 10- Learn not the way of the heathen and cutting down trees to decorate. Don't you think this would mean that we are not to LOVE this false holi day conjured up by Masonic Egyptian High Magic and the sun worshipping cult who has mixed the holy set apart Truth with the profane? The birth of the MessiYah which no one knows with the re-birth of the Sun on Dec 25. The love of this season is not by any means one of the times we are instructed to celebrate but we are to separate from such practices. "If it were possible even the elect shall be deceived." Not me you say? "some having a form of godliness yet denying the Truth as one suffering blindness and full Understanding sitll under a spell of strong delusion not realizing you are still on the path of Appollo yon and it is the broad road we are warned about. Rev 22:15 For without the gates of the "CITY"(immortality) we all seek are: dogs, sorcerers, murderers, IDOLATERS, and whosoever makes or loves a lie. Xmas is totally based on a lie and the doctrines of men all built on sinking sand. those exibiting a form of godliness may hear the words, "I never knew you."
A Warning given is not hate mail, it is trying to pluck some from the fire of judgment by the WORD. Loving your neighbor is beeing willing to lay down your life for the Truth of a matter no matter who reviles you for it and obedience to the real Truth. What can you do? you can turn, repent and be healed with greater more clear eyesight so your ears will have better discernment and deeper understanding so you may stand on firm foundational Truth. The Truth has been cast down where it is practicing and prospering is it not ? Two kingdoms are rising at the same time and the deception is quite beguiling on the surface of things... just trying to pluck as many as will look into these things from the fire as it's written so their blood and life is not on our hands ...What do you think it means the deaf shall hear, blind see and lame walk? time to bee off milk don't you think? music and songs about the MessiYAHs birth beeing played at Winter Sun Solstice time where gift giving is the one focal point and it is so obvious it has to do with the 2 witnesses hmmm now wasn't lucifer associated with music as an angel masquerading as LIGHT?some just refuse to grow up and separate from those lights on the tree...trees of death.
WWDeb
My children are all grown now. However, I never taught them santa, reindeer, etc. were real. They did receive gifts and we did go to church services to celebrate Our Saviour's birth. Today, we give gifts to our grandchildren. We try to have have a family meal with those that are able to attend. I am at peace with our decisions.
Dear Mr. Radt,
I am posting again on your blog. I agree with you that Christmas should be celebrated. Although, I don't understand how you can come up with this:
So why are we ok with applying God's sovereign control to some things, but not to others? Once again, this whole controversy seems to come back to the Sovereignty of God. Because we've lost the proper understanding of our relationship to God (Psalm 111:10), we have trouble properly understanding these topics.
And then believe that the Catholic Church is heretical; When the Catholic Church has been doing just what you say?
The Catholic Church applies this same concept to everything except those things which are in themselves evil = contraception. I applies it to Christmas trees. It suggests that we view Christmas trees as signifying life in the middle of the dead of winter. Christ's birth in the cold winter night? The evergreen as a symbol of the life of faith even when the world is so cold.
Sorry, I just noticed, didn't mean to be a bother.
Pax tecum,
S. Kenney
Jeff,
I agree with you.It also really bothers me when people X out Christ.Maybe this is another plot of satans to try and keep Christ out of the minds of people....by getting rid of Christmas even among christians.
merry CHRISTmas.
Ann
Long post. But it's simple, December 25 has nothing to do with Jesus Christ. It's pagan. Jesus Christ was born sometime in fall - search the scriptures. And the one who started this Christmas celebration is a harlot - the Roman Catholic church. I used to be a Catholic for almost two decades. Now that I am born-again, I don't want to take part of any RC traditions.
To celebrate Christmas is for me an insult to God. I suggest you do not to take part in one of harlot's sins. Again, search the scriptures. And I perceive you want to justify your act of celebrating Christmas because "it feels good".
...and ..if Christmas is so wrong to celebrate and it will send those to a fiery judgment and hell .....why is satan trying so hard to destroy it.You would think he would want everybody to celebrate it right?
Ann
Jeff,
A warm, heartfelt "thank you." Your crucial words at this late prophetic hour were so wonderfully stated, and I thank God for guiding you - & that you remain strong. Is it a coincidence that the push to not recognize/honor/celebrate our dear Savior's birth & the persecution of Christians who celebrate Christ's birth is on the rise? I don't think so! The Holy Bible warned of this generation, so it should come as no surprise:
Isaiah 5:20
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"
Jeff, your summary is a carbon copy of what I've truly sensed in my gut:
"I'm sorry my dear friends, but part of me just wonders if this is a carefully crafted demonic deception, mixed with some truth to make it palatable of course, to get the Body of Christ to openly reject any and all kinds of worship held in honor of the birth of our King Jesus Christ, the reason we even call ourselves "Christians" in the first place, leading the Body of Christ to apostasy. Isn't that possible? I just think we should be asking that question is all.
Think about it. Who would be most pleased by someone saying, "I am NOT going to celebrate the coming of Jesus Christ into this world through the womb of a virgin just as God proclaimed would happen -- never ever!" especially if that person was also a professing Christian? Who would be most pleased by such an adamant pronouncement each year?"
**********************************************************
Upon Christ's birth, there were "good tidings of great joy," the shepherds were "glorifying and praising God," there was "a multitude of the heavenly host praising God." Celebrations for the birth of the King of Kings!:
Luke 2:4-20
4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
12 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying,
14 Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.
15 And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
16 And they came with haste, and found Mary, and Joseph, and the babe lying in a manger.
17 And when they had seen it, they made known abroad the saying which was told them concerning this child.
18 And all they that heard it wondered at those things which were told them by the shepherds.
19 But Mary kept all these things, and pondered them in her heart.
20 And the shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things that they had heard and seen, as it was told unto them.
Maranatha!
Jeff,
I wholeheartedly agree with you - we should celebrate Christ's birth! Yes, we can tone down the materialism and emphasize charity. But continuing the Christian tradition of many hundreds of years is right.
Satan is trying hard to remove the last vestiges of Christ from Christmas. It started with lawsuits and fights about displaying nativity scenes on public venues. Now it has escalated to turning Christians against the holiday on "principal".
If the anti-Christmas Christians succeed, there will be absolutely no time of year it is acceptable to the general public to even mention Jesus! Easter is pretty much lost to the public and Jesus is certainly not going to be mentioned by the media then.
But Christmas is so huge in American tradition that they just can't quite let it go yet. Satan wants it gone! So, new strategy - get the Christians to stamp it out and voila' - victory! By the mid-point of the tribulation they will be exchanging gifts to celebrate the deaths of the two witnesses. What a sad deterioration the joyful celebration of Christ's birth.
Sorry, but I love Christimas and will continue to celebrate it. And that is my freedom in Christ at work.
Hang tough, Jeff!
Liz
Satan wants all things that so much as bear a resemblance to God or Christ or even bear their name destroyed, even if it means destroying the very lies he set up. He does not even like his own son, The Antichrist.
Word for this post is fledly. Sounds like fledgling. We must pray for and protect our fledgling Christian kinfolk regardless of which day we celebrate the Lord's birthday on.
""Do you really think that God put Passover where He did, to "conflict" with Easter???? I don't see how that, or using the winter pagan fest to celebrate His Son, demonstrates His sovereignty?? He does not share His glory with another, nor does He "compete". He put His feasts where He did, because that was His perfect will and they are the truth.""
AMEN AND AMEN!!!
I think it is good to understand idols. Yes there are idols in our hearts and then there are idols that are actual tangible things-statues, obelisks, tree's.
If the road to life is narrow and the gate is small, then you can be sure 'if the whole world is "doing it"' than it is probably not of the LORD.
Here's a question for you all, one that we asked ourselves. Can you lay christmas down this year? Can you just not celebrate it? If you can't do that, because you like it, want it, perhaps might be embarrased about not having it, than you may be fearing man more that the LORD.
Peace,
Deirdre
To the person who said this:
""Jeff my brother, since we as Christians honor the sanctity of life by being against abortion""
Dear one, it is ironic to me that as believers and strongly pro-life, why one would put an image in their home that represents fertility and the sacrifice of that fertility: the tree dates back to ashteroh poles, which the LORD wanted torn down.
I think we should celebrate the LORD's birth into the world during the Feast of Tabernacles.
Peace,
Deirdre
If the root is unholy the branches are unholy. You can't take something pagan or unholy and make it acceptable to a Holy God. Could it be this is forming in the mind what is acceptable to God? If so isn't that idolatry?
Jesus is not the author of confusion and surely would of told us when He was born if He wanted us to celebrate it. Exodus 32 shows how angry God became when Aaron made a proclamation and said "Tommorrow is a feast to the Lord." In Leviticus 23 we see God appointing days to keep holy. He was very precise on which day and month to keep these days. Jesus and the diciples keeped these Holy days but the bible doesn't mention them celebrating Jesus or anyones birthday.
"For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself,a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth." Deut 7:6
Does keeping christ-mass separate us from the world? We are to be in the world but not of the world. We should be looking at things from Gods perspective and not are own. Many christains have taken Romans 14 out of context to mean they can set aside a day for the Lord as they see fit. When you read the whole chapter it is appearant they are talking about eating or not eating and which day or days are acceptable for it.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. Col 2:8
Jesus was alive before His human birth, could that be why we were never told to celebrate it????
In Much Love
Kevin
Jeff, thank you for this well thought out and put together piece! It is truly a masterpiece and I will use it to help those who feel under condemnation from people who love pointing the finger at others and think that they are more spiritual because they don't celebrate the holiday.
Jeff, I too am suspicious by what is going on here w/Christians & the polarization of whether to celebrate it or not.
In the 80's I got sucked into becomming a Jehovah's Witness- EXACTLY- by this very thought process.
They pointed out the pagan nature of these Holidays (Which they don't celebrate ANY except one of their own.) and I was convinced that God didn't want me to partake in such pagan mixed practices-therefore- since I found this "truth" in the J'W's they must be on track.(It certainly wasn't being taught in general Christianity.)
So now we have Christians following the same "idea" that Jehovah's Witnesses have been adhearing to for years. As if it's some sudden discovery.(And we can probably all agree that religion is Satanically inspired.) Maybe to them it is but for me it was the beginning of a messed up life & spiritual sickness for years to come.
I can't even explain how long it took me to get over this & participate w/Christians in these celebrations of Christ once again.
If Christians don't want to celebrate then fine - no problem.
If Christians do want to celebrate-that's fine too.
Personally, I'm at Peace w/it since it opens doors to encourage others to recommit their lives to the Lord. Many celebrate out of habit/tradition but if they see Christians who truly love God & place Him at the center of their celebration then they can be a vessel for God's glory & love to flow through.
Saving lost souls & encouraging others has become far more important to me than whether I agree w/how these Christain holidays are mixed w/symbolic paganism.
Honestly on a personal level I'm not thrilled but the Lord continues to direct me to reach out to others though this means so until I'm told otherwise I will continue to do so.
In the end God will work it all out but until then we should continually double check ourselves & make sure our decisions & actions to one another are Spirit led.
If we say we Love God & show it by refusing to celebrate these Holidays while persecuting our Bretheren in the Lord who do - we are doubleminded & not walking in the Spirit.
We should be very careful in assuming we know the mind of God & what His will is individually for each of our lives in His body.
An excellent discussion going on here. Thanks to everyone for keeping it civil despite the ramped up emotions.
It's always difficult writing a lengthy piece on an emotionally charged and controversial subject b/c invariably what happens is that it's tough to ask and expect people to want to read so much. Plus, once they come to a comment they disagree with they immediately hone in on it and comment without realizing that had they kept reading they would've found their concern addressed in greater detail before a conclusion was issued.
In any event, I think this will continue to be a good (and much-needed) discussion. So far, one comment that I found particularly intriguing was Kevin's that said, "Col 2:8 Jesus was alive before His human birth, could that be why we were never told to celebrate it????" Thank you for that thought.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Woe to the rebellious children, saith YHWH, that take counsel, but not of Me; and that cover with a covering, but not of my spirit, that they may add sin to sin: That walk to go down into Egypt, and have not asked at my mouth; to strengthen themselves in the strength of Pharaoh, and to trust in the shadow of Egypt! Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your shame, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt your confusion. Isaiah 30:1-3
Woe, Woe,
Woe...
and the only way to kill those who would kill the witnesses that have the testimony of Truth and Obey the commandments is with the SWORD of the WORD that came to divide those who will not willingly choose to bee on the side of life in the valley of the shadow of death.
PS good question diedre ...I gave my tree up long ago for the sake of the WORD and if Jeremiah 10 isn't clear enough without a lot of details to start to come out I hope you not on the outside when the door is shut counted amongst the idolators who couldn't give up the tree of a 1,000 lights under the spell of a messenger masquerading as an angel of LIGHT...WWDeb
I almost forgot. Just a quick comment on why I believe the Sovereignty of God is connected to all of this.
Does anyone believe that things happen (or have happened) in this world that took God by surprise?
It's an important question b/c what you believe to be the answer will determine whether or not you accept His sovereignty or not in the first place. I think the text is clear on the truth about his sovereignty and what that actually means. We even know that Satan has to get God's permission before he can do anything, right? That being said, I look at this debate and see it much differently and I pray you'll all grant me the license to explain further.
We believe Satan to be the root of any pagan religion, correct? Well, I see the Lord allowing Satan to produce all these counterfeit pagan "gods" hundred/thousands of years prior to the birth of Christ with a bit of a smirk on His face when He gave him permission to do so.
From Satan's perspective, he thought he was going to have enough time to "muddy the waters" so that when Jesus Christ finally came no one would be interested in following him b/c they'd already have their own gods they've been worshipping.
From God's perspective, He not only knew that Jesus Christ was coming as the One True Son of Man, the Lord and Savior of the world, but He knew He was going to allow the birth of His Son to be celebrated AT THE SAME TIME that Satan's counterfeit gods were being worshipped too. Why? Remember that smirk? Remember how God is a "jealous God" we're told? Well, it's not to "conflict" with Saturnalia/Easter, but to DEMONSTRATE THE CLEAR CONTRAST between one way that leads to life and one way that leads to death.
Why is it such a stretch to suggest that He ALLOWED (b/c God is sovereign) the institution of celebrating Christmas to be set up as a way of saying, "Aha! Satan, you thought you had me, but I just one upped you like I always have and always will! The best part? The birth of my Son -- you know, the One Who you tried to keep from coming into the world? -- will be glorified and praised by my chosen ones from this point forward, and He'll be glorified and praised AT THE SAME TIME that you're trying to get the world to glorify and praise your cheap imitations! Nice try."
That's how I see God's sovereignty tying in to this whole discussion. It's not putting Christ in "conflict" with or necessarily making Him "compete" with other false gods, b/c His sovereignty ENSURES that He will always come out on top. Again, we know that the Scriptures tell us in many places that He is a "jealous" God and that's why I see this as a carefully designed commentary from Him to us about what He really thinks of Satan's counterfeits, which is why both Jesus' birth and His resurrection HAVE BEEN ALLOWED BY HIM to be celebrated at the same time that non-believers are celebrating themselves and/or anything but Him. It's that CONTRAST shown twice each year that is unmistakable in its profound message.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
OK, This is funny but so true. People should start to realize that we are losing our freedoms little by little. It's titled, "Grandma got molested at the airport.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ET8wgopbsSU
Regardless of whichever side of the aisle you find yourself on in this debate, please, with all due respect, please go back and take another look at Jeremiah 10 because it is not some sort of "proof text" against "Christmas Trees" if it's read in context. It's just not my friends.
Your Brother In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Jeffrey,
I assure you, I am not also arguing an all or none position for every single thing the RCC says, appears to commit to and is reported to believe.
I'm simply saying that there is more to BOTH sides of the argument than Faithful Orthodox Protestant > Faithful Orthodox Catholic, or the reverse.
I am a cradle Catholic who left the church, due to my own lack of foundation and lack of understanding. (Stirred up with a healthy scoop of rebellion, I might add.)
I made a conscious decision to return to the church of my birth after much study and prayer. I seek to bring an understanding to all of my brothers in Christ that we are, in fact, brothers in Christ.
I can tell you in my heart, and in the heart of EVERY faithful Catholic I know, when we say "We believe in one baptism for the forgiveness of sins." We TRULY, TRULY believe in that, and we know that our salvation comes from the sacrifice of the one Lord and Savior of us all, Jesus the Christ.
If we agree on nothing more than that at this time, I have made all the point I care to make in this discussion. I honestly do not seek to dissuade you from the position that there are problems in the RCC. There are problems, and I, and every faithful Catholic I know, acknowledge that there are many problems and problematic people in the modern Catholic church.
The bottom line is, there are many things that Faithful protestants have taught Catholics over the years. We are willing to hear and learn from your scholarship, your beliefs and share in true fellowship. (Mt 18:20)
The above statement is in general regarding the faithful Catholic I know personally, and excluding specifically those Catholics with their own agenda (Mt 7:15) of whom I will not only agree exist, but I assure you when I find them I do everything I can to point them out. I also understand their ultimate fate. (Is 5:20)
-------
I also must agree with many above comments and share a heartfelt joy at the wonderful, measured and loving comments that have collected in this discussion. Jeffrey you have done the entire community here a great service with this post. Blessings and Grace to all of you, Merry Christmas!
Coram Deo from Defending Contending wrote "On Christmas"; a very succinct summary of this whole affair...
http://defendingcontending.com/2010/12/22/on-christmas/
I pray that it provides you with some additional peace on this issue.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Jeff,
Proof texts or not it is a clue and just like the rest of the scriptures it reveals hidden things to those who seek...
Jer 10 clearly compares cutting down a tree/idol with the Most High God so we got the creation and lesser gods of verse 11 and those man made customs vs the creator..at enmity wouldn't you say?
your reasoning about xmas is just that.Proverbs ans psalms are full of admonitions about our ways that lead to destruction. Pr 7, 8, 14 and others and remind us how easily we come to wrong conclusions. by our own ways of thinking. we are involved in a test here of many diverse trials with a very formidable foe and it is only by the testing that we come to the completion of our faith...WWD
Look at what the RCC church has to say on this subject.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/popersquos-child-porn-normal-claim-sparks-outrage-among-victims-15035449.html
And look at what they have to say on space aliens.
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/2008/05/15/vatican-astronomer-says-god-and-aliens-might-both-live-in-the-same-neighborhood/
So who wants to be part of that blasphemas RCC institution.
PS JEFF
I reread your "position" about Jer 10 and you're so sure about its contextural meaning not relating to current day xmas trees, but on the other hand you premise it all by saying you might give up the X mass celebration next year. You are luke warm and or double minded on this. I'll remind you we have enough trials and trouble to deal with every day and don't know if we get tomorrow let alone next year.
There is no Peace without the Prince of Peace which is True Governmental order and our King doesn't mandate legal holidays world wide Xmas celebrations to celebrate his birth like the Egyptians do their solar orb the unconquroed sun god.The Sword came to divide a family.
Are you going up to the Feast of Yahuashuwa..WWD
If you don't see....the difference between a candle and a Xmas tree why do you suppose they decorate the worlds largest obelisk in Indianapolis every year as n XMAS tree?
Dear ones,
Some food for thought. First let me personally say again, I condemn no one for what they do. Lisa, I certainly don't elevate myself to any level whatsoever! We are sharing on LUF what we have all discovered in our personal walks. Yes I agree LOVE should abound more than talk. But isn't it truth that brought us out of darkness in the first place? So we too should know and understand what is the truth from the LORD (HIS Words, not our own). I came to the conclusion that celebrating christmas was not pleasing to the LORD. I am trying to walk in obedience to HIM. If you see me doing something you know for fact is wrong, will you not tell me?
The word "image" is translated from different Hebrew words. The word, matzebah, means "standing images" or obelisks (1 Kings 14:23; 2 Kings 18:4, etc). The obelisk only had power through symbolic magic if it was standing upright or fully erected. The matzebah pointed upward to the hammanim or "sun image" which were dedicated to the sun or obelisks (Isaiah 17:8; 27:9
By this therefore shall the iniquity of Jacob be purged; and this is all the fruit to take away his sin; when he maketh all the stones of the altar as chalkstones that are beaten in sunder, the groves and images shall not stand up. Isaiah 27:9
And they brake down the altars of Baalim in his presence; and the images (Obilisks LIV) , that were on high above them, he cut down; and the groves (Asherim NAS, RSV), and the carved images, and the molten images, he brake in pieces, and made dust of them, and strowed it upon the graves of them that had sacrificed unto them. 2 Chronicles 34:4
The groves were:
Asherah (h842) ash-ay-raw'; from 833; happy; Asherah (or Astarte) a Phoenician goddess; also an image of the same: - grove. Comp. 6253
Ashthoreth (h6253) ash-to'-reth; prob. for 6251; Ashtoreth, the Phoenician goddess of love (and increase): - Ashtoreth.
The images were condemned because they were an attempt to literally assualt God with the "works of men's hands."
Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry. Ezekiel 8:5
continue
I went back to Jeremiah 10:4 “They adorn it [the tree] with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails, so it will not totter.” If you uproot a 6 foot high tree, and stand it up in the middle of your room is it going to stand up? No, it’s going to fall over.
In addition to this, I found another verse in 2 Kings 23: 6 & 7 that confirmed that the trees were inside. “And he [Hezekiah] brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped it small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people. 7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that were by the house of the LORD where the women wove hangings for the grove.”
In my concordance, I found that there are about 29 different verses that use the word “grove” or “asherah”. In the New International Version (NIV), they only use the words “Asherah pole”, but in the King James Version (KJV) they use the word “grove”. So we know that they are the same.
Peace,
Deirdre
PS
Wiccans also celebrate christmas as the winter solstice.
http://www.rickross.com/reference/wicca/wicca48.html
3. Do many witches celebrate Christmas (in a secular present-giving way) as well?
[LR] I should think that almost all of them do. Calls to ban Christmas and not celebrate it have always come from within sections of the Christian community (e.g., the Jehovah’s Witnesses) who, quite rightly, see Christmas as a Pagan festival.
The above from http://www.witchology.com/contents/interviews/yule_winter_solstice.php
Jeff,
I am going to take the time to read this..it may take me awhile. I appreciate all the hard work you put it in. I skimmed and saw you are going with celebrating it anyway.
It is just that this is a Catholic holy day. Lee Stobel offered some research that in 385 AD the Pope Julius started x-Mass to replace Saturnalia for the new converts.
I don't get it. I don't celebrate any other Catholic holy day because I am not catholic. Why would I do this one...just because it is fun?
Jeff,
The DID worship the trees! They worshipped groves. It came from Germany and the druids.
You are putting offerings to the tree (the gift) then taking them yourselves the next day (the same way meat was sacrificed to idols then eaten by thos doing the worshipping). By your logic you could use the gifts..but why would you OFFER them to the idol.
I mean, unless you don't take God seriously when He says not to take part in any other relgion?
Friend, you have to get into the OT way more. The feast of Tabernacles is the celebration of the birth of Christ and is even discussed in Revelation. God has HIS holy days...He does have a feast for His Birthday and Passover for the resurrection.
It is easy to do the math, Christ was not born in January. It is easy to read the history, this is a Catholic take on a satanic holy day. Jesus was and is a Jew, what is the confusion with Christians? We are grafted into the Jews...not all the other relgions we have come out of. This is a big reason we are such horrible witnesses to the Jews. They can read the Bible too and we do not as a general population follow it. We pick and chose. Funny, we are the only ones. I do not see devoute people of other religions celebrating passover for the fun of it.
What on earth is any Bible beliving Christian doing celebrating it?
Alot of passionate and interesting takes on this subject but none about how God looks upon and judges man according to his heart. I have a Christmas tree in my house and have gifts under it for my kids. We as a family also love Jesus and worship Him as Lord and Saviour. Our Christmas tree is not a symbolic prop for idol worship nor do we offer sacrifice to any foreign god.
The HEART is the matter. Here we go again trying to take away the gift of salvation because of our pathetic insecurities. I am angered but will not sin with the words I'd like to post.
Peace and Merry Christmas!!!!!
what if:
this war in heaven has happened on other planets and thats why this satan was cast out and just like it is happening here now where the adversary dwells with us and where Truth is constantly cast down? How do you suppose the serpent chasing its tail drew those angels or men with it ? I'd say it was by deception for to steal, kill and destroy just like its written as we are witnessing now as it it was foretold long ago.
SWORD of Truth and its double edged... not time for warm fuzziness...we all stand in the valley of decision..ALL ISRAEL
Hi Jred,
I've enjoyed the comments more than your original article. It feels like the first century church as we search the scriptures! I want to add that the persecution I experienced from putting Christ into Christmas came completely from Catholics.
It sounds like you feel you are "suffering" persecution for celebrating Christmas. Maybe we should debate what is and is NOT persecution. Was it persecution when my family singled out my young children for ridicule and torment because they did not accept Santa? How do you feel that believers of Christ are persecuting you for how you celebrate Christmas?
What kind of comments or actions are happening because of your decision? I am curious to how your readers are treated because of the way they observe or don't observe Christmas. I am also curious if there is a higher than usual number of suicides during the Feast of Tabernacles like there is during the Christmas season. Also is there large numbers of reports of fires during Hannakah caused by candles in comparison to the number of fires started by dried out Christmas trees.
I am not opposed to celebrating Christmas. But I have no room or desire for the tree or fat Satan. I also wonder why we celebrate the birth of the King of the Jews with a baked ham. Anyone know?
I love the nativity and baking food for friends. I love listening to Oh Come oh come Emmanuel.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4iyJqrPvY&feature=related
Blessings
The war on Christ (and all things related to Christ) as well as the attempt to blot out Christ's name from our consciousness (in subtle & not-so-subtle ways) is in overdrive, and it will only continue to increase until Jesus returns! Reminds me of Psalm 83...
1 O God, do not keep silent; be not quiet, O God, be not still.
2 See how your enemies are astir, how your foes rear their heads.
3 With cunning they conspire against your people; they plot against those you cherish.
4 “Come,” they say, “let us destroy them as a nation,that the name of Israel be remembered no more."
Just as with Israel, the name of Christ, along with His true believers who celebrate His FIRST coming (His birth!), are targeted so that the name of Christ may be remembered no more before His SECOND coming! We know the end of the story, however...Christ is victorious!
Interesting that traditional Christmas colors are red & green...red symbolizes the blood of Jesus, which was shed in his crucifixion, while green symbolizes eternal life, and in particular the evergreen tree, which does not lose its leaves in the winter.
Jeff, your comment that you posted today @ 9:16 AM is absolutely spot on:
"From God's perspective, He not only knew that Jesus Christ was coming as the One True Son of Man, the Lord and Savior of the world, but He knew He was going to allow the birth of His Son to be celebrated AT THE SAME TIME that Satan's counterfeit gods were being worshipped too."
Amen!!
Dear Anonymous 1:05
You said,
The HEART is the matter. Here we go again trying to take away the gift of salvation because of our pathetic insecurities. I am angered but will not sin with the words I'd like to post.
I agree that the heart is the matter. That's why I stated in an early comment that there were and still are many things that 'I know not what I do' and that the grace of GOD covers that. However the grace of GOD also gives us the ability to trust HIM and obey HIM when it comes to a controversial issue like this. If you are so settled in your ideal of christmas, than why is anger rising up in your heart? Is it righteous indignation because we who have studied the Scriptures on this and come to the conclusion that we cannot participate in it and we are wrong and need to be corrected? Or is something striking a nerve in your spirit?
Jeff posted this as he too is trying to be Berean like and really study this out. He's raised a lot of questions and issues. Had he been totally 100% settled on the matter, I dont' think he would have posted the issue. Why bother?
I haven't read anything here yet that has been insulting or personally attacking.
I pray you and your family rest easy this weekend and that whatever the Holy Spirit shows you, you will follow only HIM.
Peace,
Deirdre
The scriptures provide us with the festivals that Yahweh has ordained that point to His complete plan of our salvation and our relationship as His betrothed.
I have heard that Yahshua was more likely to have been born on the Feast of Tabernacles or Succoth on Tisri 15. Research shows many arguments to support this.
This coincides with the in gathering of the fall harvest season. The beginning day is determined by the full moon which is also a harvest moon. Since the calender is based on the lunar cycle it falls on either September or October of our calender.
Succoth is the most beloved and joyous of all the Jewish holidays.
Here are a few quotes, "called the fest of joy", "season of our joy", "the time of our happiness".
Yahshua was born in Bethlehem, "the city of bread". Yashua was placed on the place of eating because he is the "bread of life".
At His birth, John says:
John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Dwelt is Strong's # 4637 and in Greek means tabernacled.
At Yashua's end time coming, John says:
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Succuth is the one festival commanded for all nations to observe after Yahshua's coming .
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
One of the rules for building a sukkah is that there are no trees, canopies or roofs overhanging the sukkah.
Only one spirit can be our covering and that is the Spirit of Yahweh.
The sukkah not only reminds us of the passage out of Egypt but reminds us of His physical and spiritual covering of His bride.
I have found no support in the scriptures to observe Dec 25th.
The Feast of Tabernacles is a beautiful story and the Spirit within me is at peace with it. The fifteenth of Tisri is the most joyous day on earth not Dec 25th.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtbKnPG92Bc&feature=related
Shoshana,
That was absolutely beautiful!
Jeff, (I reread your post) and found this statement to be most alarming.
I'm sorry my dear friends, but part of me just wonders if this is a carefully crafted demonic deception, mixed with some truth to make it palatable of course, to get the Body of Christ to openly reject any and all kinds of worship held in honor of the birth of our King Jesus Christ, the reason we even call ourselves "Christians" in the first place, leading the Body of Christ to apostasy. Isn't that possible? I just think we should be asking that question is all.
In the last days evil will be called good and good evil right? Who out there is acting all self righteous and arrogant as they don't recognize Dec 25? I guess I am confused. Take Shoshana for instance, did anyone read anger,arrogance, pride in her comment? I didn't! I know for me I am NOT rejecting the birth,death and resurection of YESHUA by not participating in clearly pagan rituals. I dont' get it. When the LORD makes HIS feast days so clear in the Word and HE makes these days available so we can remember (no, not attain salvation through them) all HE has done (and is going to do!), why would we replace them with MANufactured holidays?
I don't know, I've really been praying for you and others (and myself) today. I think it is easy to intellectualize everything and ignore the leading of the Spirit.
I agree our whole society is pagan and I have to live in the world, but I don't have to be of the world and dive into every thing that comes my way.
Here is something else to consider.
Just as the RCC issues this day as a high holy day (and one should be there at mass!), so many families force themselves to be with each other and make nice nice, even though they may be at extreme odds, with grave unforgiveness abounding in the heart. That my friend is true legalism and apostacy: ignoring the true tenets of our faith: love GOD, love others.
And lastly, I would rather err on the side of measuring myself to GOD's Word, than to anything the RCC has to say about anything. (and don't misunderstand me; I am an ex catholic, still have many catholic friends. I love them, just hate their doctrine.)
Peace,
Deirdre
Hi Jeff!
What a discussion! How interesting it is that modern Christians seem to try to detach God's ways in the Old Testament, from His ways in the New. He is the Lord that changes not!! He has ALWAYS been very particular about how He is worshiped and approached, no better example of His sovereignty than the fact that HE alone determines what is and is not acceptable to Him.
No doubt, David's assistant,who attempted to steady the ark as it was moving, had the best of intentions. However,he lost his life to God's sovereign holiness, something that seems to get lost in these kind of discussions. We are to worship and serve on HIS terms. We need to know and act according to HIS ways, not our own "really great ideas" or using the "tools" of the enemy. All through church history, the Lord has had a people who did not use pagan practices in their service to the Lord!! They may have been few, but they followed the steps of their Lord without compromise.
Maybe a discussion on worship would be helpful. Is it not to deny self, take up our cross and follow Him? Is it not what we spend our time on??? Our money on??? How we live our lives at ALL times??? Jer 10 may describe folks bowing down to a tree, but the principle applies to us. Christmas and alllll of it's trappings, do dictate what we do, what we spend, where we go. Isn't that a worship as well?????
Marantha!!!
Kevin!!
NO kidding! The One who always was, was not "born" in December, period!!
His plan for man is told in the Feasts of the Lord, not in a pagan "substitue"!!
Wow! Great discussion....Shoshannah and Deidre I couldn't have worded it better. Very well said sisters. But Jeff, hat off to you that you took the time to write this article and proof that this is something the Lord is dealing with all of us about....so obviously it is very important. For any of you who would start to cry "legalism" what about grace? This is how I have explained it to my children (13&8) "Father knows best" He has established His household His family. Just like any other household and family there are rules to abide by, not for bondage but for love, peace, and for things we know not of at this time but that are going to be revealed. For all you parents out there..don't we say or have been told...."while you're living under my roof you'll obey my rules" Well I don't know about all of you but I want to stay sheltered by ABBA so I'll obey all! In Rev 12 those who are recognized as HIS children are those who obeyed the commandments and recognized Jesus Christ as Lord. I want to pass along a site also for reference on the subject. Hope you get to visit it Jeff. It is www.passionfortruth.com click onto podcast site and scroll down to video called Truth or Tradition. Blessings to all.
Yes, this certainly has turned into a thought-provoking discussion and I would like to just take a moment to personally thank everyone for taking my initial comment about grace to heart and applying it to your responses especially if you disagree with me on this issue.
I do, however, have to point out an observation b/c it's demonstrative of the main point I was trying to desperately make in this piece.
I'm not disputing any of the pagan traditions that pre-date Christianity. I'm not disputing the RCC's influence on the traditional Christmas holiday either. In fact, I went to great lengths to begin this study by including as much commentary and evidence as I could to speak to those truths so I'm a little confused as to why everyone who disagrees with me keeps writing about things that we're all aware of. For instance, the repeated point about Jesus not being born in December. I know He wasn't born in December, but that (arguing every little detail) wasn't the point of all of this.
The point was to get us to ask ourselves who benefits more from getting self-professing Christians to vehemently reject ANY DAY that seeks to acknowledge and celebrate the birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ; a birth that is not only fundamental to our faith, and the fulfillment of prophecy, but one that is so important that God sovereignly decided to have it recorded for us in all the Gospels with great detail to the point where we're told about the angels, shepherds, and wise men who celebrated it.
After a little more than 24 hours of having this piece published online I have yet to read any comments from those who oppose my decision to celebrate Christ's birth that try to explain to me the counter-arguments I made are invalid. Thus, my concern about far too many of us seemingly being more knowledgeable of the dark, demonic, evil, occult, pagan, Satanic "roots" than about legitimate facts about Christ's birth, those who were there at the time, and whether or not we have the freedom to celebrate His birth if our actions, heart, and mind is in the right place.
I don't mean to be snippy or stern here, but please refrain from going on and on about the "pagan roots" and let's focus on the Biblical precepts raised. Or better yet, we could discuss how there are just as many "non-pagan roots" to Christmas like Kislev (December 25, 164), Saint Nicholas being an actual Christian, or that Martin Luther Christmas Tree story I cited. Folks, I thought that "succinct" DefCon piece I referenced earlier today was dead on b/c it spoke to BOTH SIDES of this issue, but no one commented about any of it. Why?
Again, I like the way this discussion is going, but reading them all here tonight (those who firmly oppose my view, which is completely fine by the way) only supports the general point I was trying to make.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
I'm sorry, but I forgot one final comment. A lot of people have been including in their responses mention of the Lord's Feasts and saying that we should be celebrating them instead. Actually, I tried to address that in this piece too b/c I know it's something that always comes up in this discussion. Here's what I wrote...
"Interestingly enough, those who forbid Christians from celebrating Christmas will almost always suggest that we should be observing the Lord's Feasts instead. Seriously?
What Colossians 2:16-17 forbids is the celebration of religious seasons or holy days -- when they have been prescribed as religious duty and necessary for holiness or spirituality.
In this passage, the Apostle is talking about the Old Testament festivals which were shadows of the person and work of Christ, but Christ has now come. To continue to celebrate them is to dishonor the fact of His coming, or to act as though He were not enough for salvation or spirituality.
Note what the Apostle says, 'let no one act as your judge in regard to...' He is saying don't let anyone tell you these things are REQUIREMENTS for fellowship with God. They were only shadows of the person and work of Christ, and He has not only come and fulfilled those shadows, but He is totally sufficient.
Colossians 2:16-17 in no way forbids believers from commemorating something such as the birth of Jesus Christ if it is done out of love, devotion, and the joy the season gives when used as a way of focusing on the Lord and Savior and not as a religious duty. The issue is not the observance, but the reason, the attitudes, and the spirit in which it is done.
The point is this: If the early church could celebrate the resurrection without a specific command from God, only the spirit of legalism (or the letter of the law) would forbid the celebration of Christ's birth as a special season of joy and adoration.
Ultimately, the issue is not the season, it's the attitude and reason behind it and the distortion of it. Let's not throw out the baby with the bathwater."
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Thursday, 05 August, 2010 15:24 Written by Netzari 62 Comments
Note: Before reading this, please have your Bible with you to follow along with the passages below. Though the verses will be typed in this message, it will be of great help if you take notes as well. I will be using the NKJV for my Scripture references. May the Spirit guide you in this study of Colossians 2:14 in the Name of Yeshua the Messiah.
Colossians 2:14 “dilemma”:
Col 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
The first thing that people will do when they read this verse is pull this ONE verse out of the entire chapter and come to the conclusion that Yeshua’s death has nailed the torah to the cross. However, by pulling this one verse out of context, we will miss the entire point Paul is trying to make. To resolve this, let us look closer at this passage by reading from Colossians 2:8. To figure out the context of this passage, we will have to take the English back to the Greek, then take the Greek and bring it back to the Hebrew concept. After all, Paul was a Torah observant Hebrew (Philippians 3:5; Acts 23:6) so it would be wise to know what was in Paul’s mind when he wrote this section of his letter. Let us begin in Colossians 2:8 to understand the context of verse 14:
Col 2:8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Messiah.
Notice the phrases “philosophy”, “empty deceit”, “tradition of men”, “the basic principles of the world”, and “not according to Messiah”. These phrases could not be describing Yahweh’s Torah and Instructions. If Paul was using these terms to describe the torah, then not only would Paul be contradicting his own writings, but also the entire Chapter of Psalm 119 where King David speaks greatly about Yahweh’s Torah. One might say, “But Psalm 119 is in the OLD Testament so it doesn’t apply to us because we are in Christ.” Let us look at what Paul says concerning the torah:
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
Rom 6:15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
Rom 7:7 what shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[1]
Rom 7:12 therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
The list could go on and on, but for the sake of time, these references will have to do.
With the above verses in mind, we have to wonder: Is Paul contradicting himself or are we miss-interpreting his writings? If we say Paul was contradicting himself, then he is a false prophet and his writings are not to be regarded at all. However, we know that Paul was a true witness of the Messiah so I would like to believe that his writings are true, and that we are miss-interpreting his writings by not understanding where he is coming from.
So then, what is Colossians 2:8 talking about? Well it is very clear in the phrases Paul
Dear Jeff,
Let me pose this question to you: if the LORD asked you to do something and it didn't make a whole lot of sense on paper (you couldn't logically explain it) would you do it?
If your answer is yes, then you will have to accept those of us who have come to the place where we will not participate in christmas because the LORD has directed us not to do it. If the Scriptures given and the Scriptural/historical evidence of pagan roots is not enough for you to understand why we don't do this, the only thing left to say is, the Holy Spirit told me not to and that is enough for me.
'My sheep hear My voice'.
Just as a couple can enjoy sexual love within marriage, so to can we enjoy the birth of Yeshua within His appointed feast.
Peace,
Deirdre
Hi Jeff!
As one who commented re: pagan origins of Dec 25, I would like to clarify, because it seems you don't understand what point was being addressed, as your comment at 912 refers to.
Since the origins, practices and customs are either pagan, or lack some element of truth, the question really is why does someone feel compelled to "join in" and do something neither mandated in Scripture nor historically practiced by the founding church???
Why can't someone just celebrate the birth of Christ as being "coincidental" to the Christmas date seems to be your question.
Well, if one was to celebrate on Sept 18 or 26 or whatever.......
No tree trimmed with gifts under it.....
No yule log, holly wreath, ham etc......
No lying about Santa to children, and promoting materialism in them......
No spending money, especially on credit, that will take months to pay off....
No Nativity story told incorrectly with 3 wisemen that arrive on the night Christ was born, on Dec 25... etc etc etc
A day minus those items and others, could well be a day to honour the Lord's incarnate birth.BUT, that is not going to happen. That leaves Christians with a choice, to "invent" a day of their own if they reallllly feel they need one, and to just ignore the day the world uses to celebrate what it values.Dec 25 is their "day" and those customs and traditions are theirs, things we walked away from when we "came out of the world" so to speak.
You'd be surprised how much "opportunity" comes up to witness for Christ, and the FREEDOM of leaving all of those trappings behind, when one finally quits.We ignore Halloween,for instance, and rightly so, why is it soooo much harder with Christmas? Perhaps because a Jesus has been attached to it, but which Jesus is the question.
Maranatha!!!
Jeff, I'm sure you put heart into this post. I'm real sorry I can't refute what you wrote. I started to read it yesterday but some of your words made the Spirit in me so heavy I felt sick and cried off and on all day into the night.
I've been a Christian most of my life and for too often I've been guilty of sitting on the fence. I don't know how to explain how low I am and how much I need Yahshua to be anything at all.
About a year now I've been feeling this urgent need to stand up for my faith and get my house in order because deep inside I feel tough times are coming. Coming here and sharing fellowship has really strengthened my faith and I have been inspired to dig into the scriptures and I have learned a lot that I would of missed on my own.
I feel safe and find comfort in the words that Yahshua has left us in the scriptures and what I believe I can't turn my back on.
Jeff, again I'm sorry, the spirit just didn't move me to read your whole posting.
Shoshannah,
Of course, it pains me to know that anything I've written has caused someone the kind of distress and heartache to the point where you "felt sick and cried off and on all day into the night" simply because I wanted to ask some difficult questions pertaining to this topic. I'm sorry about that indeed. The irony is that my genuine pursuit of the truth on this matter has caused more controversy than any of those often distracting "symbolism study" pieces that are way more subjective than Biblical. Why is that I wonder?
Deirdre,
My friend, I do accept your decision not to celebrate His birth this week. That's never been an issue with me. I respect that it's your decision to make. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind either. If anything, I'm just trying to understand why so many of you who have decided not to celebrate this week can't grant people like me the same courtesy when I've attempted to make the case for celebrating Christ's birth in a way that is free from the things many people detest about this time of year.
"Why can't someone just celebrate the birth of Christ as being 'coincidental' to the Christmas date seems to be your question." First, I don't believe it was "coincidental" at all, but providential and demonstrative of God's sovereignty. No, my question is why can't a Christian celebrate the birth of Christ -- period -- no matter when they choose to do so? And yes, I really feel we should have a day that celebrates our Lord and Savior's birth b/c without recognition of that miracle, that fulfillment of prophecy, that gift to the world, that fundamental tenet of our shared faith then we risk losing perspective. I get what you're saying, but where we part ways is that I believe that one can celebrate Christ's birth this week without being negatively influenced by all the worldly trappings.
Please, take a minute to read this write-up from DefCon. It's REALLY short and it addresses those on both sides of this issue in a way that is Biblical...
http://defendingcontending.com/2010/12/22/on-christmas/
These are the closing words...
"My point in publishing this material isn’t to advocate for, or against, the observance of Christmas (or any other day), but rather to make the case that a.) such things are matters of liberty and conscience in the light of Scripture b.) many of the popular myths surrounding the origins of Christmas, even within the church, are often dubious, and sometimes misleading/false and c.) many of the most strident objections to the observance of Christmas if applied equally and consistently can have far reaching [and quite probably un-Biblical, legalistic] implications in actual practice."
Amen?
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Hi Jeff!
Then perhaps God's sovereignty is at work in a way opposite to your interpretation. Perhaps this is more of a sifting tool, than a use of our liberty in Christ. God often sets choices and tests before us. Here is the world's way, yes or no, join or not join in?????
God has already marked the birth of His Son with one of His Feasts, one that will even be celebrated during His reign on earth. We don't need to reach into other religions to honour our Saviour.
In our opinion, The Pilgrim has the definitive post at DefCon.It is interesting each year, to see how many more are coming to the same conclusion as Pilgrim, they just can't "do it" anymore and the Spirit makes that so clear. That is our story as well.
At the end of the day, Jesus plus NOTHING is everything and He alone decides how He will be worshiped.
Maranatha!!!
Sorry...I meant to include, in my earlier post of 12-22 @ 11:43 PM regarding the "exceeding great joy" & celebrations over Christ's birth, to include the beautiful story of the wise men's actions as well:
Matthew 2:1-11
1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
3 When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
4 And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
5 And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
6 And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
7 Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.
8 And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.
9 When they had heard the king, they departed; and, lo, the star, which they saw in the east, went before them, till it came and stood over where the young child was.
10 When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
11 And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh.
It struck me that if, hypothetically, the day ever came when every person collectively chose to not publicly honor & celebrate Christ's birth on the designated/public day of Dec. 25th, but some other individual chosen day (sort of perhaps a hidden "recognition" day obvious only to a select few vs. a true public profession honoring & celebrating Christ's birth obvious to many, as well as a witness to unbelievers), then there would be no collective public annual nativity scenes displaying the baby Jesus (front lawns/other public areas, etc.), no collective public talk of the King of King's/Lord of Lord's/Savior's birthday, no Hallelujah Chorus "flash mobs," and no collective public Christian display of "exceeding great joy"/celebrations over Christ's birth as the heavenly host, shepherds & wise men exhibited. Satan would have won in that scenario: keep Christ hidden, turn out all the lights (darkness), remove Christ's name in the form of collective public Christmas media, silence & remove the collective tremendous public joy over the REASON for the Season for unbelievers to witness (there's power in Christian numbers), and don't publicly & collectively profess our Savior's marvelous, miraculous, virgin birth.
Matthew 10:33
"But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven."
Please come quickly, Lord.
After reading these comments I really believe that we should all respect one another's beliefs regarding whether to celebrate or not. It isn't a life or death issue and has nothing to do with salvation so why not be at peace with others?
There are good Christian people that will be celebrating the birth of Christ this weekend. They are doing it as unto the Lord so we should not judge them. There are good Christian people who will not be celebrating the birth of Christ this weekend. They are not celebrating out of their convictions for various reasons. This is between them and the Lord and we should not judge them.
So let us agree to disagree on the matter. Those of you who abstain are not going to convince me not to celebrate and I have no desire to try to convince you to celebrate. God bless all of you in your respective choices and try to be at peace with one another.
Revelation 22
22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of YHWH and of the Lamb.
22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of YHWH and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
22:4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for YHWH Elohim giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and YHWH Elohim of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.
22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship YHWH.
22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Jer 15:
15:16 Thy words were found, and I did eat them; and thy word was unto me the joy and rejoicing of mine heart: for I am called by thy name, O YHWH Elohim of hosts.
15:17 I sat not in the assembly of the mockers, nor rejoiced; I sat alone because of thy hand: for thou hast filled me with indignation.
15:18 Why is my pain perpetual, and my wound incurable, which refuseth to be healed? wilt thou be altogether unto me as a liar, and as waters that fail?
15:19 Therefore thus saith YHWH, If thou return, then will I bring thee again, and thou shalt stand before me: and if thou take forth the precious from the vile, thou shalt be as my mouth: let them return unto thee; but return not thou unto them.
15:20 And I will make thee unto this people a fenced brasen wall: and they shall fight against thee, but they shall not prevail against thee: for I am with thee to save thee and to deliver thee, saith YHWH.
15:21 And I will deliver thee out of the hand of the wicked, and I will redeem thee out of the hand of the terrible.
My question to all those against celebrating CHRISTmas is: are you going to change the date to 2011 on January 1st? Didn't a Pope of the 'Great whore' pick that date for the new year? It certainly isn't God's timetable. Are you following the 'Great whore' instead of God?
The truth is we live in a sin- cursed world but we are to be light and salt to lost people.
Many of you brought up valid questions and remarks. We all know the pagan origins of December 25th and the worship of the sun god etc. We all know December 25th is not Christs' birthday - but lost people think it is and they are the ones we should be reaching for. This is the only time of year when, for a few days, lost people think of Jesus Christ and the fact that He was born. If THAT gets them to think of why He had to come and that they need a Savior I'll take advantage of that opportunity.
I work with many people and we hear songs on the radio about "...born that men no more may die...born to give them second birth" and "...born is the King of Israel" and lost people that never hear the gospel are at least exposed to Biblical truth. It is an open door for us to witness.
Lost people view anyone who claims to be a Christian and doesn't celebrate CHRISTmas as someone in a cult. They fear people like that and don't listen to a word they say.
Paul said he became all things to all people so that he could witness to them and that some may be saved.
Jesus was accused, by the 'holierthanthou' crowd, of being a 'winebibber and glutton' because he eat and fellow-shipped with lost sinners because they needed to hear the truth. He HAD TO talk to the woman at the well in Samaria, even though Jews were not supposed to talk to Samarians, because she needed to hear the truth.
My view is we should take advantage of every opportunity to be witnesses.
Only our God can take a pagan celebration and open the door of opportunity for us.
Celebrating the birth of God's son and our promised redeemer is not sinful. If the world does this on December 25th or July 4th I don't care - I'll take advantage of it.
This is one of the most alarming quotes by far
Jeff, your comment that you posted today @ 9:16 AM is absolutely spot on:
"From God's perspective, He not only knew that Jesus Christ was coming as the One True Son of Man, the Lord and Savior of the world, but He knew He was going to allow the birth of His Son to be celebrated AT THE SAME TIME that Satan's counterfeit gods were being worshipped too."
Amen!!
Could you please show a Biblical basis for this. Because I see none and if you are claiming this with Biblical authority, Brother I say this in love..you are in SERIOUS ERROR.
God does NOT counterfit or join with Satan in any way. Jesus's birth was and is celebrated by the feasts of the OT. His whole life and the plan of redemption is there. Yes they are a shadow because we are not in the new earth yet. It doesn't mean we stop celebrating them. READ IT AGAIN PLEASE BROTHER!
Joining in on a satanic celebrating and renaming it as "Christian" is simply a dog returning to its vomit. I am going to strongly warn you as a fellow Christian that unless you have some serious back up from the Bible (not your thoughts or feelings Jeff, your Bible..period) you might want to stop saying this. I have enjoyed your journey in the Lord, but you have been in serious error before and this is a serious one again.
As for the Apostle Paul, I would caution to read him with caution. God is clear in the OT, Jesus is clear in the NT. Jesus SPECIFICALLY says in Revelation (in the verses pointed out by another commenter) that He is coming against TWO churches that allow a false prophet (one male, one female) who teaches its members to eat meats sacrificed to idols. I could care LESS what Paul says about it, Jesus spoke and so did God. It is more likely that Paul is being misunderstood and is telling new converts to not worry about ridicule from friends, family and neighbors for celebrated Jewish feasts then the other way around.
Look at it logically Jeff, are you telling me that Paul braved death and torture to bring the good news to people and said "hey, listen...as you were, go right back to you were doing and enjoy?" NO. In fact Paul says that if you do this you re-crucify Jesus and it will go worse for you then someone who NEVER heard the good news.
I understand you are a new Christian, but you keep doing this. Writing from the heart is something you must come out of. It is influenced by the devil and the flesh. Writing from the spirit is ALWAYS in accordence with the Bible.
Let's look at the FACTS.
Jesus is JEWISH.
The JEWS were given feasts to celebrate FOR ALL TIME by GOD the Father. This was for the Jews AND the strangers and aliens among them who wished to serve God (that would be us). The feast CLEARLY show the plan of redemption and salvation. And, there is NO mixing the Holy and the profane. Especially since God SPECIFICALLY says NOT to do it!
We are GRAFTED INTO the Jews. It is NOT the other way around. Without the Jews..there is no Jesus, there is no covenent. Salvation came out of them. We are not converting them to us, Jesus offered salvation to all through them.
Christ-Mass is a celebration that was started in 385 AD by Pope Julius to compete with saturnalia and to retain church attendence by those who didn't want to stop celebrating it. Do I really need to go into the fake Jesus the RCC worships and how they are into a completely different relgion then those serving the Messiah of the Jews. This is BASIC stuff.
Christ-Mass tress (and while you recounted a lovely story about Martin Luther..it is absolutely pointless. I could find a lovely story about any idol and it means nothing. God says no idols. PERIOD. If you are trying to convince others to accept this idol I fear for you).
Martin Luther was...wait for it...CATHOLIC. I know He broke with them, but the point is..you can't look outside the Bible to make a biblical argument.
The Trees WERE AND ARE IDOLS. The entire TRADITIONS surrounding them are pagan and no amount of Jesus fairy dust will change that and in fact the MIXING of the holy with the profane seriously makes God mad.
Lastly, I have a SERIOUS problem with you saying this was God's doing and I demand, sorry, I have a RIGHT to demand that you back it up.
I say this in love, and I am trying to pull you back from the fire. You have attributed things to our Holy Lord that are not His and this is a SERIOUS problem. You have done this A LOT.
So I will check back for an answer.
And by the way, the reason their are JW and other cults is because "Christians" are so mamby pamby and all over the place that anyone who DOES take the time to read the Bible can find a HUGE amount of hypocracy and easily gets sucked into a cult that DOES follow the Bible in that one area because they have concrete evidence that Christians don't know what they claim to worship.
I know, I just had it out with three of them and they backed off when I pulled out the Bible and went head to head with them and INSISTED we look up every claim. They didn't like that.
Hmm, I see far to much of that on the "Christian" side as well. Charges of legalism and all that.
Deidre and Soshannna WELL DONE! Do not be moved!
Sorry if this is a repost Jeff, I keep getting kicked off while posting .
Let's look at the FACTS.
Jesus is JEWISH.
The JEWS were given feasts to celebrate FOR ALL TIME by GOD the Father. This was for the Jews AND the strangers and aliens among them who wished to serve God (that would be us).
We are GRAFTED INTO the Jews. It is NOT the other way around. Without the Jews..there is no Jesus, there is no covenent. Salvation came out of them. We are not converting them to us, Jesus offered salvation to all through them.
Christ-Mass is a celebration that was started in 385 AD by Pope Julius to compete with saturnalia and to retain church attendence by those who didn't want to stop celebrating it. Do I really need to go into the fake Jesus the RCC worships and how they are into a completely different relgion then those serving the Messiah of the Jews. This is BASIC stuff.
Christ-Mass tress (and while you recounted a lovely story about Martin Luther..it is absolutely pointless. I could find a lovely story about any idol and it means nothing. God says no idols. PERIOD. If you are trying to convince others to accept this idol I fear for you).
Martin Luther was...wait for it...CATHOLIC. I know He broke with them, but the point is..you can't look outside the Bible to make a biblical argument.
The Trees WERE AND ARE IDOLS. The entire TRADITIONS surrounding them are pagan and no amount of Jesus fairy dust will change that and in fact the MIXING of the holy with the profane seriously makes God mad.
Lastly, I have a SERIOUS problem with you saying this was God's doing and I demand, sorry, I have a RIGHT to demand that you back it up.
I say this in love, and I am trying to pull you back from the fire. You have attributed things to our Holy Lord that are not His and this is a SERIOUS problem.
So I will check back for an answer.
And by the way, the reason their are JW and other cults is because "Christians" are so mamby pamby and all over the place that anyone who DOES take the time to read the Bible can find a HUGE amount of hypocracy and easily gets sucked into a cult that DOES follow the Bible in that one area because they have concrete evidence that Christians don't know what they claim to worship.
I know, I just had it out with three of them and they backed off when I pulled out the Bible and went head to head with them and INSISTED we look up every claim. They didn't like that.
Hmm, I see far to much of that on the "Christian" side as well. Charges of legalism and all that.
Deidre and Soshannna WELL DONE! Do not be moved!
Jesus is NOT the reason for the season!
It never ceases to amaze me at how God works in my life. A couple of days ago I was struggling with exactly what this post was about, exactly, whether I should continue to celebrate Christmas because I recently heard all about the pagan origins behind it. I am 34 and I just heard all of these things DAYS ago, and I was talking with my children about deciding what we were going to do from now. I started questioning how I was going to handle this new info, then decided that since there were pagan origins, we would go about celebrating differently next year. I immediatly began to feel as though I was not doing the right thing, immediately. I then told my children that regardless to how it originated, today Christmas means being with family, caring, loving, and celebrating the birth of Jesus, regardless to whether there is proof He was born on this exact date or not. I felt overwhelming happiness about the decision I made, then I came here, like I do everyday, and I see this post. God worked through Jeff to let me know that I was making the right decision. Thank you Jeff, and thank You God for showing me what I needed to see.
There were only 4 rules that the Church gave to the gentiles in the Book of Acts and celebrating the Jewish feasts was not one of them. The Jewish feasts all pointed to Christ. Now that we have Him there is no need to celebrate the feasts unless you want to. Please stop making laws up that don't exist in the New Covenant of which we are now under. Read the book of Galatians for more in depth teaching of how the law and grace don't mix.
Anonymous @ 11:36,
The Biblical basis for such a statement are all the passages that speak of the doctrine of the Sovereignty of God my friend. I wouldn't know where to begin b/c there's so much the Scriptures have to say about the issue of God's sovereignty (there are a number of Bible studies on the subject published here in recent months that might help).
All things that have ever happened, are happening, will happen -- whether we view them as being "good" or "bad" -- happened, is happening, will happen in accordance with His perfect will and ultimate plan for humanity (whether we understand it or not), and not Satan's or ours.
God is in complete and total control -- not Satan or man. Why does He allow evil? Why do bad things happen? Why do false religions, prophets, teachers exist? Why do some people find salvation and others don't? Why? It's the same thing, right? Why? Because God can do whatever He wants to do with His creation, but that bothers us (including many Christians).
Sure, the Scriptures also tell us that we have a responsibility to make the right decisions in life, but why do people have such a hard time reconciling our responsibilities ("limited free will" let's call it) with God's sovereignty? I don't see any conflict. Deuteronomy 29:29.
This was my statement that you singled out and reacted to...
"From God's perspective, He not only knew that Jesus Christ was coming as the One True Son of Man, the Lord and Savior of the world, but He knew He was going to allow the birth of His Son to be celebrated AT THE SAME TIME that Satan's counterfeit gods were being worshipped too."
You disagree with that b/c you don't believe that all that His Word tells us about the "Sovereignty of God" is enough to cover such a statement, correct?
So, does that mean that you believe that what Constantine and the RCC instituted back in the 4th Century "took God by surprise" b/c they were somehow able to make that decision and carry out those actions apart from God's omniscience and omnipresence?
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
Thanks Holy Joe and Rob...
I feel I need to further explain what I mean by our need to perhaps apply the Biblical reality of God’s Sovereignty to this issue a little better than I have. First, let’s recall that Satan’s M.O. is to pervert anything and everything that comes from God (if he’s allowed to).
EXAMPLE:
God places the Sun, the Moon, the Stars, the Planets, the Constellations in the heavens and sets them up in such a way that space is a natural revelation of His story to mankind that will be preserved for all generations. Satan knows this, and so, with God’s permission, attempts to set up counterfeit or to pervert this revelation. How? Well, he takes Astronomy, perverts it until it becomes Astrology, and millions of people from that point on (especially Christians) will either stay away from a serious study of such things (see E.W. Bullinger’s “Witness In The Stars”; Seiss’ “Gospel In The Stars”) or get a Satanic version that is anything but the truth.
Look, we know from the Book of Job that Satan needs God’s permission before he can do…anything, right? God is sovereign over all – even Satan – and not just us. So, knowing what we know about His Sovereignty and about Him being a “jealous” God who will ALWAYS frustrate Satan and thwart his sinister schemes, I see the Lord sitting on His throne when Satan comes to him one day saying, “I bet I can get mankind to praise and worship other gods instead of You or Your Son!”, and with a bit of a smirk the Lord says, “Ok, fine. Have at it. Good luck to ya!” knowing all along what the final outcome would be. Satan, in all of his arrogance and pride, begins to lay the foundation of false religions and false gods that pre-date Christ and Christianity by hundreds/thousands of years, and even sets up various holidays in honor of those false gods at certain times of the year. It’s the kind of process that leads some people (even some Christians) to sometimes wonder if Christianity is nothing more than a counterfeit religion itself that copied one of the earlier cults. It’s the kind of thing that makes some people (even some Christians) think that Jesus Himself maybe wasn’t anything more than a “great philosopher”. But God, in His infinite wisdom, knew better. He knew what He was doing from the very beginning. He allowed all of this to happen for a reason.
Then, the Lord, because He is a “jealous” God, and maybe – just maybe – because He was trying to send a message to Satan (and mankind) along the lines of, “Nice try, but even after all the ‘success’ you think you’ve had getting mankind to worship other false gods instead of me all these years, guess what? My Son Jesus Christ is STILL the only true Lord and Savior! Oh, by the way, just to get under your skin even more, I’m going to allow mankind to institute a holiday that will celebrate His birth AT THE SAME TIME that your false gods are celebrated, and people will still choose Him over the pretenders!”
The truth is we may never know why God does what He does, why He allowed Christmas to be created to celebrate the birth of His Son Jesus Christ on December 25th (or precisely the same time that pagan gods are celebrated by non-believers), and this interpretation is just an educated guess, but it’s one that is based on what we do know from Scripture about His Sovereignty and how Satan must go about getting permission to do the things we often attribute to him in this life. Sorry, I typed this fast since we’re getting ready to go to church soon. I hope this helped some.
In Christ,
Jeff (“JRed”)
Why is it that christians are the only ones who can extract all the fun, peace and joy out of the one time of year the world collectively, whether with sincerity or not, gives a nod to the birth of Jesus the Saviour?
Shake yourselves people, turn off your computers and give thanks for the REASON for this season. The world is LOL'ing at your backbiting.
RE: Anonymous - December 24th @ 11:36 AM
In much fairness to Jeff, & also in fairness to myself, I wanted to respond to your statement about Jeff's quote that I referenced as spot-on & that you found as "one of the most alarming quotes by far." I chose only a small portion out of Jeff's statement that he posted in the Comments Section regarding the Sovereignty of God so my post wouldn't be too lengthy. I didn't interpret Jeff's full post as him saying that God was teaming up with Satan AT ALL (that has never happened & it will never happen!!), but that God had foreknowledge & ALLOWS events. Here is Jeff's entire quote in context:
"I almost forgot. Just a quick comment on why I believe the Sovereignty of God is connected to all of this.
Does anyone believe that things happen (or have happened) in this world that took God by surprise?
It's an important question b/c what you believe to be the answer will determine whether or not you accept His sovereignty or not in the first place. I think the text is clear on the truth about his sovereignty and what that actually means. We even know that Satan has to get God's permission before he can do anything, right? That being said, I look at this debate and see it much differently and I pray you'll all grant me the license to explain further.
We believe Satan to be the root of any pagan religion, correct? Well, I see the Lord allowing Satan to produce all these counterfeit pagan "gods" hundred/thousands of years prior to the birth of Christ with a bit of a smirk on His face when He gave him permission to do so.
From Satan's perspective, he thought he was going to have enough time to "muddy the waters" so that when Jesus Christ finally came no one would be interested in following him b/c they'd already have their own gods they've been worshipping.
From God's perspective, He not only knew that Jesus Christ was coming as the One True Son of Man, the Lord and Savior of the world, but He knew He was going to allow the birth of His Son to be celebrated AT THE SAME TIME that Satan's counterfeit gods were being worshipped too. Why? Remember that smirk? Remember how God is a "jealous God" we're told? Well, it's not to "conflict" with Saturnalia/Easter, but to DEMONSTRATE THE CLEAR CONTRAST between one way that leads to life and one way that leads to death.
Why is it such a stretch to suggest that He ALLOWED (b/c God is sovereign) the institution of celebrating Christmas to be set up as a way of saying, "Aha! Satan, you thought you had me, but I just one upped you like I always have and always will! The best part? The birth of my Son -- you know, the One Who you tried to keep from coming into the world? -- will be glorified and praised by my chosen ones from this point forward, and He'll be glorified and praised AT THE SAME TIME that you're trying to get the world to glorify and praise your cheap imitations! Nice try."
That's how I see God's sovereignty tying in to this whole discussion. It's not putting Christ in "conflict" with or necessarily making Him "compete" with other false gods, b/c His sovereignty ENSURES that He will always come out on top. Again, we know that the Scriptures tell us in many places that He is a "jealous" God and that's why I see this as a carefully designed commentary from Him to us about what He really thinks of Satan's counterfeits, which is why both Jesus' birth and His resurrection HAVE BEEN ALLOWED BY HIM to be celebrated at the same time that non-believers are celebrating themselves and/or anything but Him. It's that CONTRAST shown twice each year that is unmistakable in its profound message.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
December 23, 2010 9:16 AM
JRed - Sorry, I didn't realize that you had already responded to Anonymous - Dec. 24th @11:36 AM regarding your comments on the Sovereignty of God when I posted my reply to it a few minutes ago!
Enjoy time with your family & others at church, and have a beautiful Christmas (Christ's birth) - the only true reason for the season.
I found these quite interesting – two quotes from one of the most respected historical Christian theologians and authors – Charles H Spurgeon.
“We have no superstitious regard for times and seasons. Certainly we do not believe in the present ecclesiastical arrangement called Christmas: first, because we do not believe in the mass at all, but abhor it, whether it be said or sung in Latin or in English; and, secondly, because we find no Scriptural warrant whatever for observing any day as the birthday of the Savior; and, consequently, its observance is a superstition, because not of divine authority.” (Charles Spurgeon, Sermon on Dec. 24, 1871).
“When it can be proved that the observance of Christmas, Whitsuntide, and other Popish festivals was ever instituted by a divine statute, we also will attend to them, but not till then. It is as much our duty to reject the traditions of men, as to observe the ordinances of the Lord. We ask concerning every rite and rubric, “Is this a law of the God of Jacob?” and if it be not clearly so, it is of no authority with us, who walk in Christian liberty.” (from Charles Spurgeon’s Treasury of David on Psalm 81:4.)
Dear Jeff,
There is something we have overlooked. You stated that I (and others, but I will keep to myself here) have condemned you for celebrating christmas. Would you please (at your convenience) show me where/when/how I have done this, because if I have condemned you, than I need to know and repent! This I find even more important than this weekends celebrations.
Peace,
Deirdre
The quote by Charles H. Spurgeon is stated just as a man expressing his feelings about a subject. Back in the 1800's, many Protestants and Catholics were extremely separate and hostile to each other. Remember, Spurgeon was a fallible man as we all are and his quotes are not necessarily, "Thus sayeth the Lord."
Today, I was contemplating on the opportunities I've had to reach out to others "in Christ" in the secular world. The Lord will use willing vessels who will walk amongst the heathen Gentiles.
Dec. 25th is a great "starting point" to reason w/people why & for what purpose this day is celebrated. The Spirit is moving though Christians this Christmas-secularized & all. I am witness to this very fact in "real time" so to say that God is displeased ... well, I'm not going to go there.
I love the "Feasts of the Lord" also, and have studied them & review them as the come around each year.
To the Gentiles- I have secular Christian holidays & to the Jews I now have knowledge of the Jewish Feasts & how they reflect the prophecies of the coming Messiah.
To the Gentiles I stick w/Jesus. To the Jews I refer to Him as Yeshua.
There has been a resurgence of knowledge in Christianity w/regards to the Appointed Feasts of the Lord.
Could this be that God is now turning His attention back to the Jews & He will use Messianic Jews & knowledgeable Christians to draw them to the truth of the Messiah & the Holy Spirit will open their spiritual eyes?
You're probably not going to accomplish this through secular Christianity but the common thread of the Jewish Feasts are a great "starting point" w/the Jews.
This is what I'm seeing so far. I am not hearing from the Holy Spirit in my life to ditch the Christian secular Holidays.
As for our kids they are taught both.
To be honest - many of the Christians who are passionate about Hebrew Roots & have a personal distaste of all Christian secularized traditions tend to have the spirit of pride crop up.
I don't know why this is but it's certainly being noticed on the receiving end. Hopefully we can grow in Christ & continue to be civil to each other even in disagreements.
It seems, that the basic rationale for continuing to participate in something that few would argue doesn't have pagan roots, is that it gives "opportunity" to witness to others re the birth of Christ.
As laudable as that may be, it isn't Scriptural. Paul's words in 1 Corinth 2:1-5 are the outline of what our witness should be about.... the CROSS!!
vs. 2 "2For I resolved to know nothing (to be acquainted with nothing, to make a display of the knowledge of nothing, and to be conscious of nothing) among you except Jesus Christ (the Messiah) and Him crucified".
The cross is the power unto salvation, not birth stories. The cross is an offense as Scripture tells us, but it is THE subject that the Holy Spirit honours by His power in the new birth of men.
The sentimentality of this time of year, cannot be a substitute for witnessing as Scripture instructs to.
As we progressed to stop participating, we tried to stick to using it as just a day for family being together etc. We never did Santa with our kids, we tried to keep Christ's birth out, because Christmas is not founded in truth about those events. We were not left with much. The last year we put up a tree, we could tell it would be our last. When the trappings, traditions and sentimentality are stripped away, there really isn't much there.
There is a real freedom in sticking to what the Word says, we don't need anything more.
Gosh, there are a lot of responses!!!,
I have to weigh in too,
I attend Torah class and during one reading the Rabbi commented when something is very understood it called being fulfilled.
I have come to think when Gentiles are fulfilled is when they fully understand. Just saying, its something to think about. Blessings, we are so close!!!
Deborah
In these days, where the extermination of anything christian from the landscape seems to be rushing onward with full steam applied, it is curious to me that there is also an attempt being made from God's own side to extinguish the celebration of His birth as well. The spirit seems similar.
I can't help but think of what this looks like from the secular side. Christians extinguishing Christmas. I'm sure they are not thinking, as a result of this, I want to be a Christian.
Christmas is probably the last celebration were songs about our Creator's birth as still broadcast in malls, over the airwaves, and through various other means. These songs, to the secular world, are a witness to Him, and as for me, I will do what I can to keep this alive so that we can bring as many as possible over to our Lord's salvation.
And I pray that once they get here, they don't get tacked by a non-celebrator and loose their faith.
The bible records significant celebration when he was born. This provides vivid example for us, who also can celebrate his arrival amoung us.
Stan
Jeff,
By your philosophy should we then celebrate Jesus' birthday on Buddhas and Mohommads birthday to show Gods sovereignty?
I don't think this is being a Berean Christain do you? Just some thoughts I'm having.
In much love,
Kevin
JRed,
You mentioned in the comments section about a discussion for the non-pagan roots of Christmas - i.e., St. Nicholas being an actual Christian. I saw a 3-minute video on CNN earlier tonight about this same subject...thought it was really interesting:
"Saint Nick's Legacy"
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/
12/22/watson.turkey.saint.nicholas.cnn
Also, here's a 2-minute video showing Christmas Eve. celebrations in Bethlehem (according to the Mayor of Bethlehem, tourist visits are up 60% from last year!, with 90,000 people from across the world expected during the Christmas time-period alone):
"Celebrating Christmas in the Middle East"
http://cnn.com/video/?/video/world/2010/
12/24/hancock.mideast.looklive.cnn
I'm lookin' up!
Lord have mercy...so if we celebrate the birth of the King we're not CHRISTians. Check yourself...what light are you shinning? What is your salt good for? Think about this...if you can't celebrate the birth of the King and be a CHRISTian...what can you do? As for me, you can have my bread...and you can have my head...but you will NEVER get my bow. I shall endeavor to celebrate the birth of the King EVERY day. As a matter of fact, I'll make sure to do this thing on every single pagan holiday I come across.
Oh please... Satan is the father of deception. He twisted the Word of God in Eden to deceive Eve. He parades himself as an angel of light to fool men. He twisted Christianity to form the Roman Catholic religion - the religion who is leading numerous people to utter darkness and has supported Hitler and the Nazis, the people who slaughtered the Jews. And to say that God intended December 25 to be celebrated by us Christians is like saying we should embrace the Roman Catholic religion. That is absurd.
My intention is not to boast. But it was through knowledge that I learned the truth about the Roman Catholic church and left; again I was a Catholic for two decades. And it is the same knowledge that I learned about December 25. If you people want to celebrate it, no one's stopping you. But mind you, you are not pleasing God.
Keep it straight and simple. And stick to the scriptures. Our hearts are wicked and deceitful. Don't follow it.
jeff and those of like mind
first off JESUS was born in late september. it's not debatable, it is scriptual!!!
the winter solstice celebration, is pagan & luciferian all the way!!!
the tradition of christ-mass IS the worship of idols!!! their is NO sugarcoating it, unless your a double minded man???
so WHO do you BOW to? santa(satan),
tammuz, saturnalia, martin luther???
or GOD as JESUS CHRIST!!!
you can do what you like, but to try and justify this clearly satanic practice. IS an ABOMINATION before GOD!!!
I am not judgeing you, I am stating facts!!! some day you will stand before GOD, at the white thrown judgement. only you will be able to try and explane why you chose the path you choose?
but it is a worldly, self centerd and rebelious path that knows the TRUTH, and still choses to follow the lies of evil!!!
I pray you can see your error before it is to late!!!AMEN
great work diedre, and do not fold in the face of advercity!!! stand strong in the LIGHT of CHRIST you will be rewarded!!!!!!!
john
Anonymous said...
Why is it that christians are the only ones who can extract all the fun, peace and joy out of the one time of year the world collectively, whether with sincerity or not, gives a nod to the birth of Jesus the Saviour?
Shake yourselves people, turn off your computers and give thanks for the REASON for this season. The world is LOL'ing at your backbiting.
December 24, 2010 2:43 PM
Wow. So as long as we give the Savior of the world a "nod" on Christmas, we've all done our duty right?
21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"
23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."
Jeff, Merry Christmas to you brother and to all who still celebrate this beautiful remembrance of the birth of our wonderful Savior. Hope that you had a wonderful day with the family!
Anonymous quote: "The cross is the power unto salvation, not birth stories."
And who stated the info shared stopped @ the birth? (A Christmas card perhaps.)
The point of witnessing @ Christmas time is that God came to earth in human flesh out of His great love for us - came in humility for our example- took the penality of our sins upon Himself & died on the cross & rose again so that we may be reconciled w/the Father though Him if we believe, trust, & follow Him.
I know that also includes the "Easter" ressurection message but both holidays are an opportunity to share the ENTIRE salvation message.
Focal Point Message on "Christmas Trees" & arguments re: should Christians be having them due to pagan roots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUbKy1kTjH0&feature=player_embedded
the whole loaf is leavened!!!
and those who choose to follow the luke warm about these pagan man made traditions.
will be the ones whom JESUS says,
begone I know not whence you came and I never knew you!!! apon his return.
why do you still do not get it? why do you still cling to the world?
come out of her MY PEOPLE and set yourself FREE!!! JESUS said I AM the way, the truth and the life!!!
come unto ME, OH ISRAEL(CHRISTIANS)
and set yourselves apart from the heathen practices of the world!!!!!!!
this is the warning FROM GOD!!!
those who can not see this, are destined to fall! and IF you do not change your ways you will recieve the wrath of GOD as the vial judgements are poured out apon the heathen nations.
GOD have mercy apon their souls, because they know not what they do.
JESUS call them to the LIGHT!!! if it is in YOUR WILL !!!!!!! AMEN
john
Dear Jeff,
I appreciate your posting all these replies and for your origianl post for it has been for me like iron sharpening iron: truly a great lesson in listening, reviewing, thinking, praying and leaning on the everlasting Word of GOD.
I realize you are truly busy with your family and with your posting. I do wait for your reply to my previous comment to you.
Peace,
Deirdre
Dear Lisa,
I can assure you I am not Hebrew roots, charismatic, baptist, presbyterian or anything like that at all. I do use the name Yeshua and Jesus (because Yeshua being the orignal form) and I have learned some of the Hebrew Feasts.
We need to be careful that we are not judging when we call others prideful.
For the other anonymous posters who keep repeating that it is Christians who suck the fun out of everything: I can say firmly you are speaking from a soulish/flesh point of view. Maybe reading some of Foxes Book of Marytrs might help you get a fresh perspective on things?
Please pray and read the Scriptures about the narrow road and small gate.
Peace,
Deirdre
Dear Lisa,
I can assure you I am not Hebrew roots, charismatic, baptist, presbyterian or anything like that at all. I do use the name Yeshua and Jesus (because Yeshua being the orignal form) and I have learned some of the Hebrew Feasts.
We need to be careful that we are not judging when we call others prideful.
For the other anonymous posters who keep repeating that it is Christians who suck the fun out of everything: I can say firmly you are speaking from a soulish/flesh point of view. Maybe reading some of Foxes Book of Marytrs might help you get a fresh perspective on things?
Please pray and read the Scriptures about the narrow road and small gate.
Peace,
Deirdre
dierdre
concerning hanukkah, please go to
http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/Hanukkah.html
and read the truth about this manmade tradition.
their are only seven holydays according to GODS WORD, if you think spiritualy HE chose 7 for a reason!!!
if you know prophecy, you know there is a numarical formula hidden in GODS WORD 6 is man, 7 is JESUS CHRIST and 8 is the mingaling of 6&7 into the luke warm or fully leavened religions of the WOLRD!!!
many can not see this or will not except this but it is the TRUTH!
the 8th also represents the anti-christ.
this is very important stuff if you are to remain in CHRIST and his patients untill the end of days
GOD help them to see the SPIRITUALY understood things of YOUR NATURE!!! if it is in YOUR will!!!!!!!AMEN
john
Dear John,
Good word! Thanks for posting that. When I said we recognized hannuka, I meant in the regards to this Scripture John 10:22-24 and to what Mark Blitz says that Jesus may have been concieved around the time of Hannuka (symbol of Him being a miracle of light, sustaining light.) We did think that hanuka would be better to 'celebrate' than xmas (we didn't get to celebrate it b/c my husband was out of town and we didn't feel impressed to dive into that anyways.) But that is very cool that you posted that because we were just praying this morning asking the LORD to reveal to us anything that was not pleasing to HIM! HIS truth reigns! amen!
Thanks again,
Deirdre
Mat 2:1 Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
Mat 2:2 Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
Luk 2:12-15 And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger. And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God, and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men. And it came to pass, as the angels were gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds said one to another, Let us now go even unto Bethlehem, and see this thing which is come to pass, which the Lord hath made known unto us.
The arrival of Jesus to earth in the flesh was a great thing, people came together to see. There was great celebration. His birth was a marvelous thing, something to be remembered.
While the dates of his conception and birth may not match with Dec 25th, it is interesting to note that Dec 25th is the date of the full retrograde of Jupiter, (Source: The Bethlehem Star), over Bethlehem, at the time of the Magi's visit. This is a clear sign that even the heavens celebrated the birth of Christ.
I agree with the folks who claim that we should come out of the world, and not celebrate pagan festivals. But I don't agree that celebrating the birth of Christ during this season is displeasing to God. If I go visit my lost family and friends and I celebrate the birth of Christ, and while they celebrate Christmas, I make myself available to the Holy Spirit to bring life and light to the them, this is not wrong.
Mar 2:16-17 And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners? When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
I believe that what is wrong is for us to turn out the light during the Christmas season rather than let our light shine. There is no time during the year when people are more exposed, and opportunities more abundant, except perhaps, during the time we celebrate His resurrection.
While the origins of Christmas have it's origins in pagan history, that is no reason to allow pagan history to have the victory here.
Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
In closing, I have noted that there is a common thread among those who choose not to celebrate the events of Christ, are mid-trib or post-trib, are a-millenial or post-millennial. Some of these also do not believe in the deity of Jesus. There seems to be an overt effort on the part of many of these to burden the body with with implied statements that we are heretics of we don't also follow these paths. This is sad, and should not be so. It is interesting that I can't ever recall the same judgments from those who believe in Christ centered celebrations of his events, nor pre-trib or pre-millennialist.
Luk 6:36-37a - Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
The Star of Bethlehem
http://www.seizoom.com/Product.aspx?PId=c3f05611-0694-45a0-885b-ed0d7d8985d4
Dear John,
PS you said, GOD have mercy apon their souls, because they know not what they do.
JESUS call them to the LIGHT!!! if it is in YOUR WILL !!!!!!! AMEN
This a beautiful prayer because indeed there are many things we do that we 'know not what we are doing' and do really and truly need the mercy from the LORD. And I guess too, that when we do come into a truth that it truly is a grace from the LORD that we understand it in the first place. Like I said, we only came to really understand from GOD's Word last year about xmas. So we too 'did not know what we were doing'. I am so thankful for JESUS salvation, mercy and grace. What a wonderful Savior we have!
amen,
Deirdre
jeff
after reading your many comments here on this subject, I guess you have thrown the whole SOLA SCRIPTURA piece and it's purpose right out the window!!!
I'm very sorry but you are deffinetly a double minded man, and still have not totaly excepted JESUS CHRIST and his spirit!
I feel terrible about this because you had come so far in matureing as a CHRISTIAN.
I can't put my finger on it but you seem to take 2 steps forward and one step back over and over again, which is alright as long as you keep advanceing.
but there comes a time when you must throw the carnal man off your back, and keep stepping forward!!!
keep in mind that time is slipping away and the days will be shortend as the scripture says!!!
GOD I pray with all my heart that you keep jeff on the strait and narrow path that leads to JESUS CHRIST!!!!!!! if it is in YOUR WILL!!!AMEN
john
The Christians who don't want to celebrate Christ's miraculous birth during this season (due to the Dec. 25th debate), do definitively celebrate His birth once a year (a day individually chosen, perhaps, or on a feast day, etc.), right? And it doesn't get lost in the shuffle of everyday, busy, stressful life and is never forgotten, right? Surely it's not possible that the Savior of the World's birth is ever forgotten by a Christian from year to year, right?? And it's not just an obligatory "wink" or a "nod" to the King of king's/Lord of lord's virgin birth/birthday, right??
John, who are you to judge your brother in Christ? You are the one who is going to have to answer for your behavior when you stand before the Father. You don't realize how holier than thou you sound when you write your diatribe. You are no better than the Pharisees and Sadducees that came before you. Stop polluting this blog with your cult-like teaching and get your own blog.
Whoa...Deirdre, Jeff & other readers - please be aware, as a website that was recommended to Deirdre on Dec. 26th @11:43 AM is run by a false prophet:
http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/Hanukkah.
html
The site is run by James Lloyd, a false prophet. Upon research, here's what was discovered about Lloyd:
He uses the words "moron" & "rapture cult" to describe some believers, and bashes Jews (refers to them as the Antichrist) & bashes the Christian church (refers to them as the False Prophet beasts). There's much more disturbing info. about his background - as shown in a couple of sites below, which include audio from his radio show.
It makes sense now...parroting of the words "moron" & "rapture cult" to describe some believers & bashing of Jews & the Christian church in Look Up Fellowship's Comments Section.
Here's Lloyd's disturbing background:
http://www.christianmediaexposed.com/james
_lloyd_prophecies.html
Also, here's Lloyd's history, & incredible audio clips from his radio show "Apocalypse Chronicles"®. A true false prophet with his mind-blowing claims:
"The True Story of James Lloyd Doing Business as Christian Media Network - Prophecy for Sale"
James Lloyd: The Lost Episodes
http://www.beaconoftruth.com/ch21.htm
Matthew 7:15 -
"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."
Since when did celebrating Christmas become the unforgivable sin?
pk
you once again proved you are a VILLIGE IDIOT!!!
I never tried to hide that I have gotten prophecy understanding from james lloyd.
as amatter of fact I recommended him and his site opnely here on this blog a number of times.
because what you fail to see is because you are blind, deaf and dumb, is james lloyd is CORRECT!!!
like all of us he is not perfect,
but if you took the time to read his info and check it out in the THE WORD OF GOD, you would see that he has a GOD given ability to understand the layers of bible prophecy!!!
or then again you personaly wouldn't, because you are loaded with hatered for the truth!
this is because it does not fit your doctrine or church teaching.
and you will have to live through the tribulation, which scares the LOVE out of you!
james lloyds, and mine for that matter is the doctrine of truth from the THE WORD OF GOD!!!
NOT from an apostate pastor or an 18th centry witch from europe or the man made traditons of the church.
you are a MORON and I feel sorry for you. but I do not hate you as you do I!!!
keep grasping at straws you will be slapped down hard in the very near future. not because I say so, because the WORD OF GOD SAYS SO!!!!!!!
so I will be patient and watch as always!!!
you will be out of my way shortly UNLESS you heed GODS word and come out of the strong dellusion.
GOD please help these ignorant pharasitical false christians to wake up, before it is to late!!! if it is in YOUR WILL!!!!!!! AMEN
john
John, my dear brother in Christ, I've given you free reign here since day one, and will continue to do so -- to an extent. Please reign it in some because opening by calling another brother a "village idiot" is not edifying or constructive let alone consistent with what we're taught to apply from Romans 14-15 to such disagreements within the Body of Christ.
In Christ,
Jeff ("JRed")
rob
you have once again proven that you have no idea what judgement is!
in GODS EYES, judgement is to condemn some one to the 2nd death or
death of thier soul and inner spirit.
first off I do not have that power or want that power, that is given to JESUS CHRIST alone!!!
I do though have an eye for spiritual discernment, this was given to me by the grace of GOD thru JESUS CHRIST my LORD and SAVIOR!!!
you lack any sense of wisdom or guidence and you speak out of hate!
you live in a mamby pamby fictional world out of the sixties love, peace and sex movement. which was propagated by lucifer and his minions in the communist zionst physical jewish, world domination movement.
you do not effect me and I will leave this site when GOD chooses, not you and your cohorts in deception!
as I have said to your partner in ignorance, you will be slapped down hard by the hand of GOD!!! it is biblical, and you can count on it!!!
you still have a chance to except real LOVE, but time is short.
so please read your bible, and stop listening to apsotate church pastors WHO KONOW NOT THE LOVE OF THE TRUTH!!!!!!!
JESUS HELP THEM!!! amen
john
jeff
I"m sorry you don't understand, but if you check your BIBLE you will see that the apostles called ignorant GOD hateing people way worse things than I!!!
paul & peter used words like dumb as a dromadari(CAMEL) and the sense of a dumb DOG. they also called people useless swine(PIGS)!
so I guess i'm in GOOD company!!!
anyway my point being is, these are not true brothers in CHRIST!!!
they follow a christ, but he is a false christ made up by man in the halls of their 501c3 temple made of human hands. as I have said they and there followers will all come crumbaling down and realize they were oh so wrong!!!
I feel sorry for them but, they make their own decisions and GOD has warned them thru HIS WORD!!! I've done my best to steer them in the right direction and that is all that is asked of me by GOD!!!
so my conscience is clear and I don't realy want to respond to them at all, but they keep ATTACKING ME!
GOD HAVE MERCY on them!!! amen
john
Jeff, Jesus said "by their fruit you will know them." It does not take much discernment to perceive that John is spewing vile and condemning words. This is your blog brother and I am not telling you what to do but you have been more than patient with him. I did not appreciate the way he viciously attacked you. You are a very humble man and don't deserve to be trampled on. Do us a favor and block this individual and pray for him. That is all that you can do since he believes he knows it all and has to talk down to everyone. Many cult leaders display the same characteristics.
Dear PK,
As with any source of information, one would hope that one would check it out against the Word of GOD.
All James Lloyd site did for me was encourage me to check the Biblical info he had listed about Hanuka. He was correct about the word chemosh/shamash. It is in the Scriptures and it is associated with human sacrifice.
Friends, lets try and stay on track here: isn't what we want to know the truth of what the Word says? And all of us are fallen, imperfect, yet we do offer little bits here and there. Let's encourage each other to search out the Scriptures (our Fathers, true, holy Word(s) ) and find out what HE says about everything. And in everything I pray the Holy Spirit lead you! amen! (-:
Deirdre
those who seek the truth
here is an interesting video on time. and please read the columm on the right of the site before you watch the vid!!!
http://video.godlikeproductions.com/video/Surprising_Scientific_Discovery
funny how this stuff pops up at the right time isn't it!!!
JESUS show us all things concerning the end times!!! if it is in YOUR WILL!!!!!!!AMEN
john
@ John:
Where is your love?
Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
1 Peter 3:15 But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect...
I have to say, weighing your comments against scripture is revealing, and brings to mind:
Jas 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Practice gentleness and respect, as the letter from Peter states.
Bro.Jeff,
It appears John has anointed himself judge, jury and verbal executioner of YOUR website.
"Mind Manipulation with an Attitude: Brainwashing Techniques, Mind Control and Christian Media Network - Prophecy for Sale"
http://www.beaconoftruth.com/ch7.htm
Some mind manipulation techniques/propaganda employed by James Lloyd include:
--["Demonizing the "enemy" who does not fit the picture of what is "right"."]:
"Example: Anyone who disagrees with James Lloyd is characterized as a "moron" an "Idiot" and is operating "in the power of the Devil"."
"This serves to keep the followers "in line" or risk being castigated and shunned. The type of person who is drawn to this cultic group, has a desire to "belong" and seeks validation which will be removed should they raise questions as to the veracity or accuracy of the "prophet"."
"It also engenders hatred (which being a strong emotion, intensifies the brainwashing process) towards outsiders, nullifying any influence those "outside" of the cult might (family, old friends etc.) have on the subject."
"Judgments are often made while, the boundary of discourse itself, or the framework within which the opinions are formed are often not discussed. The narrow focus then helps to serve the interests of the propagandists. This is employed in a textbook fashion at Christian Media."
--["Demonization and Name Calling"]:
"This is done on a regular basis by James Lloyd. It not only labels any opposing argument his doctrine may face as heretical and demonic, lessening the chance that his victims will examine any criticism on it's own merits, but has the subtle effect of placing an unrealized fear into the victims mind that they might likewise be in "spiritual danger" should they disagree with their leader. It also discourages any dissenting views within the group for fear of being so labeled and cast out of "fellowship"."
*****************************************************
The inerrant, infallible Holy Bible states:
Ephesians 6:10-18
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Romans 1:16
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek."
Philippians 4:13
"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me."
How I always view these situations...
Matthew 12:36 "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment."
Even so, thanks for the support guys.
Praying For Restoration Within His Body,
Jeff ("JRed")
pk
you never cease to amaze me, on how much lack of wisedom one human being could possibly have.
again instead of checking out his site and aligning it with what the WORD of GOD says. you chose to attack james lloyd by visting other liers site's and showing what they had to say about him???
YOU ARE AN AGENT OF LUCIFER!!!
because you can't even use your own brain to discern TRUTH from fiction! instead you run to someone else to bad mouth people and the TRUTH.
you are self destructing as I speak.
you continualy use the tactics of the pharasees to try and explane your own lack of knowledge about the word of GOD just as they did when they attacked JESUS on a regular basis.
you continualy call me hostile and buligerant when in every case, I was attacked by you and your little cabal of three stooges!!!
pk, holy joe and rob. it's the same pattern every time, and it's the same pattern that lucifer uses!!!!
you are very bad people and I feel sorry for you!!! you need some serious help! and only one entity can give it to you, that entity being JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF!!!
it is possible, look to saul of tarsish for that example.
GOD, I personaly give up on them it is in YOUR HANDS. do what ever is in YOUR WILL as always FATHER!!! amen
john
James Lloyd's words (spoken from his own mouth) are revealed in his radio show. False prophet! The Holy Bible (our perfect Source) warns believers to be on guard from false prophets so that they're not deceived (especially in the last days).
Audio clips from Lloyd's radio show with his spoken words of false prophecy:
http://www.beaconoftruth.com/ch21.htm
Please come quickly, Lord.
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